View Full Version : Strange...

23rd May 2003, 08:16 PM
I entered some more times today (updates for Sampa Run SE and Sagarmatha, RR as well as TT) and again I observed that don't really seem to be good at vector and venom... But I usually do rank in the top 3 at rapier and phantom. I first thought that this is because there is more competition in the lower classes but this is not always so... Strange huh? Does anyone have an explanation?


Neo-phyte A10
23rd May 2003, 08:28 PM
If you're used to racing at higher speeds you will likely overcompensate at lower speeds. I have the same problem. My reflexes take over before my brain says to relax.


23rd May 2003, 08:56 PM
i think it's primarily a matter of timing. the different speeds in each class produce a different time between necessary control inputs, and this produces a different rhythm to your race. you get used to one set of timings in your favourite class, but will then be thrown off your rhythm when shifting to a different class.

in addition, the slower classes require absolute perfection of line to achieve a competitive time because so many people can approach the limits and because the racecraft have so little reserve acceleration and shields, while in the upper classes, few if any of the pilots have approached the best possible times, so perfection is not required except when going against Al's times. that means that you generally have a reserve of acceleration and shields to work with, so that the piloting is looser

23rd May 2003, 09:35 PM
What Lance says, but also the vec and ven times on Sagarmatha are particularly hot stuff.

also on slow classes, apart from needing wall-free races, you won`t get anywhere near the top if you hit other ships on the first lap, or if you get shot. These things are harder than usual to avoid on Sagarmatha.

there can`t be a basic problem with your flying, seeing as you can do what you do on rapier and phantom. Vec and ven really are easier, and it only takes a couple of goes to adjust your turning points to the slower speeds. maybe its that you`re not using your boost in the most efficient way. on sagarmatha the best boost tactics seem to be a bit elusive...... ask Zargz for info about this!! 8)

anyway, I think you might be overeacting as you don`t seem to be doing too badly on Altima..... *gulp* :o

24th May 2003, 01:39 AM
many moons has past since I went 2 sagarmatha .. 8)
all I remember is boost of the jump :roll:
perhaps now is the time 2 go there and make some flying laps!
yay! altima !! the humiliAtion ! :o :D

hey thrusty! u stil got them ghosts? :-?

24th May 2003, 09:58 AM
@ V. that Altima rapier time is awesome, only a mega-perfect race will beat it, and then only by fractions, surely. My time was a perfect race but for one small bump on the last lap, because I was too busy feeling pleased with myself. And then you slaughtered me. :lol: :-?

I don`t think u could have found a shortcut as there aren`t any on Atlima, nor on Sagarmatha. Sagarmatha rapier could go down at least to 1.35 I think.

I need to get on my PS2, get on those tracks, but I have a lot of real life to deal with first :evil: :-?

24th May 2003, 11:33 AM
Greetings all,

What Neo-Phyte and some others have offered makes most sense. I tend to be too cautious on vector and venom. On the other hand I'm also a bit more careless in these classes in a sense that I'm satisfied more easily than I am on rapier and phantom. Only the latter two really make my blood flow faster. Speed demons! 8)

I practised long and hard for both Altima VII and Sagarmatha. The reason: my brother, Ben, who is also listed with a time or two at the time tables, had times there I could not break no matter how hard I tried. So I kept practising until I broke them. His only time I haven't broken yet is his phantom time trial on Sagarmatha... he got 19:24 as a lap record and 1:39:xx as race record. I was there when he achieved it.

The difference between him and me is (in almost every game) that he specialises in one facet (e.g. three or four racing tracks and two ships) while I am average with all ships and all tracks. In the end we are probably both as good but it depends on what track we are racing... :). In our fighting and FPS games there's a similar pattern: he's very good with three or four fighters/weapons and I can handle them all but not as perfect as he can with his.


25th May 2003, 03:40 PM
I suffered the same venom heartaches on Sagarmatha last night - started off getting 1.26s, then kept getting worse and worse the more I tried, and after half an hour I was getting 1.30s. Even if I managed to get far enough infront to avoid getting blasted on the straight at the end of lap 1, I could hardly manage a PL at all after that. But its only Sagarmatha where I`ve had this issue. Its hard to get the braking judgement right, always too much or too little and in the wrong places. I can`t make up my mind whether to brake or just go for it, and always get caught somewhere in the middle. The other problems seem to be traffic, AI aggression and clumsy handling: Icaras on Venom is a bit of a barge in the handling department, but it seems to be a lot worse on Sagarmatha - maybe ice on the wingtips.

V. it must be good to have another wipeout junkie around the house - I`m training my son - and he`s already better than me at Quidditch in Harry Potter (the kids` game NOT mine)

25th May 2003, 04:46 PM
lunar: Brake. You'll totally fix that problem of yours if you just use those airbrakes. Over-use them, infact. Unless you're totally positive that you can get through the turn _without_ braking, brake. Yes, you'll be slow. Hear me out.
Now, on subsequent runs, you'll know what turns you did too much braking for, or, (god forbid!), not enough. Work yourself down to the minimum amount of braking. By now you should see small improvements in your race times. Once you've learned how to brake all the turns perfectly, then you should start experimenting with nose control and other methods of not braking. NOW you'll see the seconds just fall off your time. You'll realize that if you start on the far side and nose down and turn in early, you can do the 3rd turn without any brakes at all, and the 8th turn, well, that's just pulling back (nose up) and a hard right, so...
You get the idea.
Once the braking is instinctual (I've tried to hit the airbrakes in my damn car) then you'll be able to recover from any mistakes you make or messes the opponents put you into.

25th May 2003, 06:06 PM
With rapier and phantom I brake whenever, without thinking about it much, but on Venom you feel like you shouldn`t have to, and you don`t want to lose any speed, even though as u say its necessary.

you`re right, back to basics is the way forward. Start slow and get faster not the other way round.

Must admit when I first found WZ I thought Phantom was the Yorkie Bar of race classes, and anything else was for wimps. I couldn`t understand why there were so many "granny" vec and ven times posted. I`ve revised that opinion now anyway.

25th May 2003, 07:35 PM
hm... now i see why Jay [and perhaps others] get the edge on me. he continually experiments and analyses the results and applies them with consistency. i am too damn lazy to do that. when i start a racing session and get poor times, i just keep racing until i get bored or get a new personal best. then i don't race again for weeks. clearly i suggest that you do it the analytical and persistent way instead of the instinctive way. and racing often is probably a very good idea, not necessarily racing Wipeout, but racing sOmething just to keep your 'chops' instead of having to start all over again next time you go for better racetimes.

agh. speaking of lazy, i just got up less than an hour ago and discovered that the Indianapolis 500 was already through 180 laps of 200. sorta takes away the feeling of a great event when you miss all the buildup, doesn't it?

25th May 2003, 10:17 PM
Looks like you just got there in time for the important bit, but perhaps a bit too early :D I can`t stand watching any form of motor racing, it bores the pants off me just thinking about it. Stuff with a bit of contact is ok-ish, like TOCA, but not if the whole point of the race is to smash up other cars - that`s just silly. Don`t even start me on the relentless, sunday tedium of F1. The problem with motor racing is there`s no obvious physical demonstration of skill, vision and speed of thought. With a great pass by Beckham or Dan Marino ( I used to watch the "gridiron" a while ago) its easy to appreciate the genius. M. Schumacher might be more of a racing genius that the other drivers, and brilliant at going round corners, but you can`t actually see the difference..... its just vroom vroom and stats.

IMHO :wink:

Racing games are generally my favourite though.

And yes the buildup can be vital if you`re interested in the event, especially if there`s a bit of tribal passion involved. :evil:

sort of on topic: I find a few days off can do wonders for your race times, you just pick up the pad and go. I used to find this with zone: you work out what you need to do but can`t do it, then while you`re not playing your brain seems to embed what you need to do, and next time you play you do it automatically, but you`re in control at the same time, and you`re in the zone. But wip3out is more complicated than zone and it don`t work quite that well all the time. Its never quite automatic because every race is different, and there are so many different methods and strategies to try on every track. And of course sometimes I start to get all shaky when I think I might get a good time, and mentally repeat my own version of Xeik`s mantra "don`t **** this up, don`t **** this up."

26th May 2003, 02:33 AM
wow! so u2 have thAt mantra huh :wink:

26th May 2003, 12:27 PM
Task is absolutely right. Although I consider him to be a better pilot than me, I ran through very similar stages of evolution and have also experimented and analysed my breaking technique, mainly. Some of you will probably know this, but this way I found out that there are also some corners that you can't turn around by steering but you can round by using airbrakes without steering. Very cool 8).

About a mantra: if I say to myself "don't mess it up" I usually end up messing it up. It's best to have an empty, focused state of mind and not think of anything else but the lines of the track. Mantras are simply distracting me, just like metal, hardrock or music with too much voice in it.


26th May 2003, 01:30 PM
I got a similar aproach 2 learn new trax it's perhaps justa different definition
I go 2 TT and my 1st goal is 2 get thru the track without tuching any walls
2 do that of course I need to break alot to b 100%
even if u do connect 2 a wall u still have a ghost 2follow & learn by hEs mistakes ! 8)

26th May 2003, 06:31 PM
About a mantra: if I say to myself "don't mess it up" I usually end up messing it up. It's best to have an empty, focused state of mind and not think of anything else but the lines of the track.

Dead right, I don`t want the mantra but it has a power of its own. Its the Demon of the Last Lap. "Don`t mess it up" is what happens when the self-consciousness and desire return, and therefore the track itself is no longer your single focus of attention, and so you "mess" it up. I think the ideal state is a kind of controlled "non-attachment", to use the Buddhist phrase. It isn`t pure non-attachment of course as we still have the desire to prove ourselves, but desire must not become overpowering, as it makes u forget your skills and practice.

About which, Zargz I guess we should all use your practice method, but we don`t all have the patience.

26th May 2003, 08:06 PM
i should change my username from my real one to 'Harvey Wallbanger'. or maybe when i'm driving really really well to 'Jack Trackscraper' :-? :D

26th May 2003, 08:27 PM
Don't tempt me. I was a single click away from doing that 'Walbanger' change and then posting something like "You asked for it". :roll:


26th May 2003, 11:11 PM
uhoh, power is already tempting you to corruption. sigh.... you humans are so weak. ;)

um... i meant wE humans are so weak, of course. :D

whaddya mean i got callouses on my delete finger?

26th May 2003, 11:45 PM
Who are you calling human, mortal?
Nah, I just thought it would have been fun if next day you couldn't login (wrong username) and then see that the list of moderators in every forum in the main page display something like:

Moderators infoxicated, Wamdue, Harvey Wallbanger, xEik, Task

But although it seemed fun and would have been OK for a laugh it would still be abusive behaviour. So in the end I didn't do it.


27th May 2003, 12:30 AM
Lord Acton knew what he was talkin about, dude. word

27th May 2003, 08:45 AM
LOL :lol:

Rest assured, I think even the better pilots here occasionally have a rendez-vous with the walls (and really you don't seem to be doing that bad at all in the tables Lance!). It's only human to make mistakes. Well, except perhaps Al, but I've come to the conclusion a long time ago that he probably is not human.


27th May 2003, 12:49 PM
I didn't know it was Lord Acton the first to state this. I thought it was just popular belief.
Anyways, I don't agree with that. From my point of view corruption is already in those who don't have power. However, they are not in position to show it. Power doesn't corrupt you, it only allows you to show how corrupted you already are.
Someone who from the beginning isn't corrupt won't be affected by an increase of power.

27th May 2003, 01:13 PM
John Emerich Edward Acton: [1834-1902]
1887-''Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.''

''It is bad to be oppressed by a minority, but it is worse to be oppressed by a majority. For there is a reserve of latent power in the masses which, if it is called into play, the minority can seldom resist. But from the absolute will of an entire people there is no appeal, no redemption, no refuge but treason.''

''Learn as much by writing as by reading.''

''Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.''

''The man who prefers his country before any other duty shows the same spirit as the man who surrenders every right to the state. They both deny that right is superior to authority.''

''The most certain test by which we judge whether a country is really free is the amount of security enjoyed by minorities.''