Armistice Day protest in the UK [Archive]

OBH

12th November 2010, 10:07 AM

Did anyone see this in the news yesterday?

Yesterday saw an event that made my blood boil, and sent a chill down my spine.

During the Armistice Day 2 minutes silence to remember British dead soldiers in foreign countries, a group of around 35 Islamic protesters called Muslims Against Crusades gathered around Hyde Park in London burning poppies, stating

"The British soldiers you remember on this day are soldiers who have taken innocent lives in illegal occupations and unjust wars.
"Our aim is not violence but if people come to us with violence, Muslims will defend themselves."

Let me say now, as this will no doubt be a sensitive subject to some, that I am anything but a racist man. I was brought up to be caring and understanding towards others, and fully abide by that upbringing. My good friends are from a whole range of countries and beliefs.

I just find this to be totally and utterly disrespectful. To the point where it gets me fuming. I just do not understand some people who feel it is their right to so violently disrespect others, and in their own country as well.

I can only imagine how angry the war veterans themselves must be.

Dark_Phantom_89

12th November 2010, 10:49 AM

I heard about this as well and it made me absolutely furious. How dare they disrespect those fantastic heroes who made the ultimate sacrifice so that we may live a better future.

What I find hypocritical is that our soldiers are fighting for democracy which is what the vast majority of Muslims in the Middle East want. :?

Now, I have no problem with those who practice their religion peacefully and without intent to cause harm, but stuff like this just crosses the line.

OBH

12th November 2010, 11:23 AM

What I hate the most, is misguided people from the UK take acts such as this as the 'general belief' of people as a whole, and develop a real hatred towards people as a whole. They see everyone as tarnished with the same brush.

A teeny tiny group of misguided people give good people who come to the UK with good intentions a bad name.

kat-kun

12th November 2010, 11:29 AM

WTF, those men sacrified there lives in WW2 to protect us. how can a group of islamic protestors do such a thing. they wouldn't like it if we did such a thing to them by burning what they use to honour their dead soldiers so why do it to us. and plus my great grandad died in D-Day, so im really f***ing mad!!!

Woopzilla

12th November 2010, 01:38 PM

It's just an insane amount of ignorance coupled with misguidance by extremist leaders.

But just imagine what the world would be like if we or other westeners (as we are usually called) overreacted over such things just like the extremists did over the danish cartoon business. It would be a very sad world.

Some have been arrested and we can only hope that they will be justly punished.

If it weren't for the many british soldiers that gave up their lives then I definitely wouldn't have been born... My parents met in germany and I was born there.

blackwiggle

12th November 2010, 03:38 PM

It just shows that all religions are a total load of BS if only because you can have extremist points of view.
Far better off without them.

Atheists of the world unite and stand up for your disbelief's!

You have the ultra conservative "Christian" factions in the USA that are just as bad, but the more troubling matter with that lot of idiots is that Rupert Murdoch gives a whole bunch of them air-time on FOX to spew their misguided bile as a form of "Patriotism".
These poppy burning Muslim fanatics are just doing the same thing, if you don't agree with them you are not a true believer = Unpatriotic to the Muslim faith.
That's why they picked Armistice Day as the most offensive day to "protest"

Religion & Politics should never be mixed, but it has been as a form of vote gathering over the last 15 years in both the USA & UK.
Both Bushes & Blair are prime examples.
I suppose deep down it works on the assumption that it is easy to appease and get the vote of somebody that is already soft in the head.

Two quotes are relevent here.
“Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy” George Bernard Shaw.
The same could be said for religions IMHO
And
“Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.” Samuel Johnson, which is very apt for both of the Bush presidencies, if not for their presidential campaigns.

mic-dk

12th November 2010, 04:05 PM

BW, don't knock religion just because of the extremist crazies. We non-believers have our own extremists - Dawkins and not least Hitchens who seem to have gone completely off the deep end. Hitchens is starting sound like one of those mullahs/popes we all laugh at.

If people around the world finds peace, morality and brotherly love in religion, that's fine and dandy. Don't put them down just because they believe in something different than you. Point your finger at the crazy A-holes that make all our lives miserable.

PS. I don't subscribe to any gods, though I kinda want a Valhalla to go to in the afterlife... :viking :hornedhelmet :beer
PPS. We agree completely on religion and politics. Oil and water them is.

OBH

12th November 2010, 04:14 PM

@Blackwiggle
There are even more extreme examples of religion and politics being mixed in the UK.

Since 2008 Britain has had official sharia courts of law for Muslim civil cases. Which are allowed to be used if both parties agree to give it the power to rule on their case.

I'm so massively against this. Not only would I not be granted the same British rights of law within their country, but one study shows four out of 10 women attending sharia courts were party to civil injunctions against their husbands. i.e. sharia law deny's women rights in the family. And encourages the legal mistreating of woman within a certain community.

How is it possibly fair to use a brand of law that goes against our own womens rights which have been around for a hundred years??

@mic-dk
Totally agree -- that a painfully small minority of people can encourage a widespread disliking towards a community as a whole.

MENGKESHI

12th November 2010, 08:11 PM

Well, in my opinion, as offensive as the event may be, you have to put it in context. The fact is that British foreign policy over the last 10 years has been questionable at best with two wars as well as unquestioning support for Israel's wars in the Middle East. Perhaps some of these people have family members that have been killed/suffered in these conflicts so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect emotions to be running high. No one is born a violent extremist, imo they choose to become "radicalised" because they have some kind of overwhelming hatred that the groups they join allow them to vent. I'm sure that these kind of protests don't take place in more neutral countries. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're right at all, I'm just saying sometimes you've gotta look at the cause and the wider picture...

OBH

13th November 2010, 10:00 PM

Good reply :)

I can only speak for myself, but while I totally agree that those people may have lost families, and are entitled to voice their own opinions, it doesnt hurt to still show some respect. I think that there are certain things in life that you just do not do, and one of them is burning poppies on Armistice Day.

I mean what gain is there to be had from making a protest on a day that remembers a time that has nothing to do with the current conflict? Not just a protest, but to actually burn the symbol of that day?

Its the same as when they wanted to boycott the town where we parade our dead soldiers. Showing such disrespect doesn't help their cause at all, it just causes more anger towards them.

Lets say for sake of argument that they have their own day to remember the many civilians who have died in market explosions, and I decided to make a protest - in their country - by burning the symbol of that day. I wouldnt survive to long enough to se another morning.

Nutcase:259

13th November 2010, 10:02 PM

Radicalisation kinda goes beyond religion, its generally weak minded people who are prayed on and brainwashed by people just trying to cause tensions,

Shows greater maturity to ignore it, no matter how infuriating as by rising to it you just creating the reaction they want, gotta be defiant to hate ya'll!!!

and as the age old british saying goes "keep calm and carry on" :D

MENGKESHI

14th November 2010, 04:48 AM

Hey :)

Yeah I totally agree, of course this kind of behaviour is not gonna help their cause at all. But when you're very angry about something it's hard to remain objective and logical.

Also, yep it is of course good that we live in a country where people can protest without fear of violent reprisals.

To be fair though, to truly reverse the hypothetical situation, it would be more like you move to live in a wealthy and prosperous country that has a massively more powerful military than UK. While you're there, this country unprovoked starts attacking UK which is for all purposes powerless to defend itself. Your sister is killed and your newly born cousin is born deformed due to the use of internationally-illegal chemical weapons by this country's allies. Your family's house is destroyed and they are struggling to get a supply of clean drinking water let alone electricity. All I'm saying is, given these kind of horrific circumstances, I would understand why you might want to burn the sensitive symbol of the country your are living in. It's not gonna help you achieve anything but it is a way of venting your anger...

To be totally honest, I'm not particularly keen on the rise of any religion either. But what I dislike even more is the rise of Islamophobia we have seen in recent years. And the more people do stupid **** like burning Qu'rans / making offensive cartoons all it's gonna do is make people more angry and contribute to the radical elements in the religion ultimately creating a vicious circle. I mean yeah sure you "should" be able to do these things without causing any kind of violent repercussions, kinda like in the same way I "should" be able to walk into my local crack den and start making citizen's arrests without any fear for my own safety. But sometimes acting with common sense can really make life a thousand times easier for everyone. The thing I hate most about all this focus on Islam is that all it is doing is diverting attention away from the real problems here which originally were MUCH larger political/economic problems than the small religious issues people have been concentrating on recently. I mean eg. refusing to take off your hijab is not a big problem in the grand scheme of things. It really isn't...

btw, I've never seen this kind of thread remain civil for more than a couple of posts, let alone a whole discussion. Kudos to the maturity of Wipeout players! :D

kaori

14th November 2010, 09:47 AM

Idiots & haters have no religion, too bad I'm civilized, because I would use gratuitous violence against them.
These extrem people, hiding behind religion (or it's new, the ecology), are very dangerous for our future and freedom. "Don't do that, don't do that, don't do that", this is the only thing they tell.

Dark_Phantom_89

14th November 2010, 10:37 AM

Did you pay your respects today at 11am? I for one did and will not let those "protesters" ruin what today and the 11th stands for.

Challenger #001

14th November 2010, 10:59 AM

I went to a local church service on Thursday myself. I'm not particularly religious, but my grandfather was a soldier in WW2 and to claim that he wasn't a hero is anathema to me.

UB3R~JKP

14th November 2010, 01:23 PM

Poppies shouldn't be a right but more a choice, that's the problem today. I'd never wear a poppy as the bloody stains of the innocent shouldn't tarnish my clothes. Not talking about WW1 and 2 but any other conflicts the british thugs have been involved in.

Aeroracer

14th November 2010, 04:11 PM

I dont understand why the islamic extremists thought it wise to dishonour the heros who have died during all the wars by burning poppys.

they can hardly call themselves muslims or to be honest anything apart from wild hate filled animals of super low intelligence.

i would love to find out where God or Mohammad said its ok to dishonour dead people or spread hate or commit acts of murder in their names.

i have read the qur'an and just like the bible and any civalised culture or other real religeon its clearly states that this type of behaviuor is forbidden and 100% defys the word of Allah or God and basicaly everyone good.

these type of people will so regret the day they finaly meet their makers

may incidents with extremists is the extremist is just dumb brainwashed youngsters.its the old ****s like abu hanzer or whatever he is called that brainwash these kids and hides in the mosque..these people should be slung out of uk.
they are same as nonces but they groom their kids to kill not for sex.

Medusa

14th November 2010, 05:26 PM

UB3R-JKP, I'm with you on that.
My grandfather was in the WWII, great-grandfather and great-uncles in the Great War. Most people in the world will have somebody who was involved in the WW somehow. I have deep respect for the beliefs of others, most believe that those in the war were fighting for our freedom, most in that war believed it too. What I most respect is that a horrendous amount of lives were lost in those wars, and for what? The truth is, that if nobody fights, nobody dies. I can't say I am proud of any side of a war, because people are dying, innocent civilians and innocent people who have been convinced to take up arms. I would be proudest of my family if they had said, No, I'm not going to kill anybody no matter what.
I am still proud that they took a stand for their beliefs, but that is where I draw the line.
I can't wear a poppy, I can't attend a memorial service. I do give a moment of silence, because we lost so many people in those wars. I mean no disrespect to anybody, but that's my stance on it.
But on topic, that particular protest is just another example of how extreme views poison the world.
To say that all religion is evil/bad, best to watch what you say, as atheism itself is a type of religion: it takes faith to believe there is no God. Faith itself is basis of religion, so although atheists may not be organized, how different is it exactly? I don't know...
Yes, when you lump religion altogether, there is a ton of evil in it especially when playing with politics. But there is a huge number of people who are religious who are making the world better because of their faith. So I don't think it fair to be so harsh on "religion".
Bloody political correctness!!! LOL.
Sorry for the double post, PS3 won't let me post normally and I don't know why.

OBH

14th November 2010, 05:30 PM

Poppies shouldn't be a right but more a choice, that's the problem today.
When was wearing poppies no longer a choice :????

Medusa

14th November 2010, 05:33 PM

I don't know if it's the same there as here, but I get the evil eye when I walk downtown without a poppy on, especially going past the veterans who are selling/giving them out. Even if I'm friendly and say hello.

OBH

14th November 2010, 05:37 PM

No, it isn't like that here at all. At least not where I live.

UB3R~JKP

14th November 2010, 05:50 PM

When was wearing poppies no longer a choice :????

Not literally OBH, but c'mon do you REALLY think that all TV presenters are wearing a poppy on their own behalf, and if they don't and somehow manage to get by the "we are the greatest country ever" mob who beleive only people from their side died...get slated in the papers. Look at the football teams, that is the best example. Celtic FC's fans had a whole nation in disgust becuase they used their freedom of speech to create a banner that said:

"NO BLOODSTAINED POPPIES ON OUR JERSEY
YOUR SINS WOULD MAKE THE DEVIL CRINGE IN HELL
AFGANISTAN-IRELAND-IRAQ"

Telling it as it is, and yet everyone was disgusted, even in my school refusual to wear a poppy as i'm a senior pupil got me in a bit of trouble, maybe i kinda jumbled my words: I meant more along the lines it is BECOMING a right.

Sunderland will probally be getting a drilling tonight after their refusual! I fanybody is going to wear poppies it should be the WHITE poppies, after all shouldn't we honour ALL war dead regardless of race, religion or nationality!

These islamic might have set about their protest the wrong way but they are completely right IMHO

Aeroracer

14th November 2010, 06:49 PM

@medusa...your so right atheism is the same as a religion. they 100% believe that their is no god yet have 0% evidence to prove they are right apart from pratts like richard dawkins who has spent his entire life picking inconsistancies out of the bible and states thats proof where in reality it just proves men over the ages have messed about with the bible taking stuff out and adding stuff as well as translation issues too.

where as religon 100% believes there is a god and perhaps 0.1% evidence to support this for example catholics who have a bible and 1 billion people who agree as well as well as apparent documented cases of saints and prophets visits from god and christ to take into account.( i am not catholic btw..just an expample)

back on topic

people have a right not to wear a poppy in the UK and they also have the right to not support or approve of it, but equally so the people who do wear poppys and do support the event also have a right to look down their nose at and non supporters and speak in a negative fashion about them.think its called freedom of speech.
strange how freedom of speech and expression only counts for the minority, they dont like it when they get it back from the majority.

i support poppy day because i have read about what it really is about.
I cannot understand how anyone could be against it unless they really did not understand what its about, but i accept they are those who do not agree.

OBH

15th November 2010, 05:56 PM

I fanybody is going to wear poppies it should be the WHITE poppies, after all shouldn't we honour ALL war dead regardless of race, religion or nationality!

These islamic might have set about their protest the wrong way but they are completely right IMHO

I 100% agree that white poppies would be far better.

Where where we differ however, is I like to believe the majority of the people who pay their respects, DO pay them to EVERYONE. Do you think that door to door, person to person we're a nation of violent supremacists with no compassion towards others?

If someone called me a "fanboy" in the street for wearing a poppy id punch him in the face.

Nutcase:259

15th November 2010, 06:25 PM

These islamic might have set about their protest the wrong way but they are completely right IMHO

how? it wasn't ever designed as protest, it was just a stunt pulled to incite hatred. its not about the right to choose whether you want to wear a poppy or not.

Ironically it doesn't seem any of the extremists realized that without the sacrifice of the men & Women they were disrespecting, they wouldn't even be allowed to 'Protest' in the first place.

EDIT: also. if they burned all these poppys. does that not mean they had to donate money to the charity to get them all in the first place? if so. well that kinda massively undermines the whole thing no?

Aeroracer

15th November 2010, 06:30 PM

@obh.hahahaha..me too....i would kickem in the dik

my logic is if you dont believe in it just leave it and walk away..dont antogonise people who do believe for actualy genuine good reasons such as remembering grandpa who was sent to war as a kid to fight for our freedom..

i wonder what would happen if i went to saudi arabia and burnt a sharia law book cos i objected to them publically hanging a 16 year old boy because he was born gay..
dont think i would be getting bad media coverage more like a flogging a prison sentence and life deportation back to my country and thats if I was lucky enough to have good legal aid..

the saying when in rome do as the romans do's applies in this situation.

muslims burning reefs just empowers racialists and bent govements gives thm an excuse to hate the east even more..two wrong dont make a right
people like blair and bush must have loved this as it makes them look good.

UB3R~JKP

15th November 2010, 07:43 PM

OBH i left out a space in "If anybody" I didn't call you a fanboy. :D

Maybe people respect both sides but the actual charity don't.

MENGKESHI

15th November 2010, 10:11 PM

I didn't go to any remembrance services or wear a poppy, for similar reasons to those that UB3R and Medusa have already described.

You guys can claim that Remembrance Sunday with the poppy as its symbol exists to remember all who die in wars but to be fair, we all know that it places emphasis on the British military with all poppy money and donations going to the British Legion or similar organisations that support British troops.

Regarding conflicts Britain has been directly involved in, the war dead I currently want to honour most are the Iraqi children that have been killed in the illegal war that we started. So you're saying I should do that by buying a poppy and donating to the British Legion? Please tell me how that logic works because I really can't see it...

Oh... and I shouldn't have to say this to validate my opinion but yes my granddad was also in WW2 and as far as I'm concerned his memory has been far more insulted by the atrocities that the country he was fighting for is committing than the people burning poppies could ever hope to have done.

Aeroracer

16th November 2010, 12:20 AM

MENGKESHI

16th November 2010, 12:49 AM

in your first paragraph you almost sound like its wrong that remeberance sunday is focused on the british legion organisation and our soldiers..its england of course its primary focus is for our soldiers and what we do here.english people are englands first priority..thats why we have individual countrys with there own leaders.we are one of the most tolerant countrys in the world would english people get away with burning an equivalant of a reef in a muslim counrty..think not.you would be stoned most likely

second paragraph

no one said you have to buy a poppy to honour the people who died in irac..you can mourn who you like when you like.

All this I was saying just to express my point that it's ludicrous to pretend that Remembrance Sunday / wearing the poppy is to honour all war dead when actually it's really only to remember our own troops.

point is show respect and dont knock someone elses things.
problem with england is people whine about stuff like this saying its my right i dont have to do this crap i dont belive in it.well maybe not
i dont believe in wearing headscarfs when i go to a muslim country and covering every part of my body im against it but out of respect for being in someone elses country i happily do it and show them the respect i expect in return.

This "when in Rome" argument is all fine and dandy if you ignore the main point which is that we have created/supported wars in "their" countries. It's not as if a group of young guys from a country we have nothing to do with came here on a party holiday, got drunk and for no reason started burning poppies. Then, yeah sure, I would completely agree with you. But these are angry people, angry because we have screwed with their lives. I really can't see what is so hard to understand about this. If I pummelled someone into a bloody mess, would I expect him to continue acting reasonably and politely towards me? Of course not so why would you expect the same from someone who perhaps lost family or friends due to our actions?

for my rememberance sunday is about soldiers who have died serving our country..not a celebration and honouring of our govement or its desisions some of which have been fataly wrong and cost lives here and in countrys we have invaded.for this i think i speak for 99% of uks population.who have had family killed in ww1 and ww2

You may see it like this, but as far as I'm aware, Remembrance Sunday is not only about WW. In fact wasn't the theme of this year something like Afghanistan war heroes? Not sure where I saw that but think I read it somewhere. I may be wrong about that so please correct me if I am...

Aeroracer

16th November 2010, 01:12 AM

i do understand where you are coming from and agree on certain points.

but fire makes fire these reef burners are upsetting people who have done nothing against them they are making muslims look terrible.their true enemy is govement policy yet they always target the public.this is why they never get anywhere and never will.its almost like these idiots are working the the govement employed to do this type of thing to give govement reason to justify what they do..and paint muslims in a bad light..

what really angers me is when they quote Allah too and twist words to justify voilence in any of its forms.
all religeon has to follow the ten commandments these superseed everything they are basic no if no buts you must do them to claim to be a follower of Allah, God Yahweh Elohim Enlil whatever you want to call him .if you are breaking these you cannot claim to have god on your side there alone..so these muslims are not true muslims.

MENGKESHI

16th November 2010, 01:27 AM

Hey yeah I agree with that general point. :) I don't think it is helping their cause at all. My first couple of posts in this thread were basically saying that although I think what they did is wrong, I just think people should put their actions in context before getting worked up about it...

UB3R~JKP

16th November 2010, 12:00 PM

All i'm saying is it's a JOKE the the BA's soldiers who die in Iraq are made out to be heroes....

THEIR SINS WOULD MAKE THE DEVIL CRINGE IN HELL!

White poppies yes, but red poppies...i don't care if we live in Britain our troops were not heroes, nor were the enemies, THEY ARE ALL KILLING HUMAN BEINGS FOR GOD SAKE, AS THE FAMOUS IRISH POET SAID:

"WHY I'M FIGHTING I DO NOT KNOW,
THOSE I AM KILLING I DO NOT HATE...
THOSE I AM DEFENDING I DO NOT LOVE"

Soldiers in past wars acknowledged what they were doing wrong, but they had no choice but to fight! These soldiers today kill innocents, ravage houses and kill house dogs and pets!

"DULCE ET DECORUM EST...what a lie"

"Hurting the fellow germans took a stab at us too...they were forced into our situation too-most of us would never harm another human being without reason...i'm not even sure this is a valid reason"

SO I ASK BRITISH VOLUNTEERS HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY YOUR DEATH AS A HERO,NEVER A TRADEGY, ALWAYS A COMMODITY

OBH

16th November 2010, 02:05 PM

it's ludicrous to pretend that Remembrance Sunday / wearing the poppy is to honour all war dead when actually it's really only to remember our own troops.

Rubbish.

I wear a poppy and i remember all the dead. Any friend and family I know, weather they wear a poppy or not, respect everyone who died.
I do not care how the media portray the event. Honest, normal decent people (like the community we have here) can appreciate the magnitude of death within war. Not just to their own.

What I cannot stand is when people think that within all this mutual respect, which we do show, we are not allowed to remember our own dead. We ARE British for god sake.

I don't condone our actions as a nation, in fact in many cases I hugely condemn them. What my point boils down to is how on earth are normal, honest British families with dead sons and daughters not entitled to the same amount of respect and compassion as everyone else?????

All i'm saying is it's a JOKE the the BA's soldiers who die in Iraq are made out to be heroes....

White poppies yes, but red poppies...i don't care if we live in Britain our troops were not heroes, nor were the enemies, THEY ARE ALL KILLING HUMAN BEINGS FOR GOD SAKE

Soldiers in past wars acknowledged what they were doing wrong, but they had no choice but to fight! These soldiers today kill innocents, ravage houses and kill house dogs and pets!

I love how you make out that every single British soldier is a bloodthirsty, inhumane mongrel. You are right though, it's a commonly known fact that every Englishman was crafted in the pits of hell, and exists on this earth only to cause misery and suffering to everyone else. I personally have a collection of the severed heads of my enemies mounted on my living room wall, you know, just for kicks.

I bet you didn't have the same passion towards civilians dying in Iran & Iraq when Saddam Hussein was killing hundreds of thousands of civilians with nerve gas?? Or the thousands of Palestinian deaths since Israel totally annexed it as a country??

Funny, I didn't think so.

Please don't misread that statement, I'm not saying I'm pro war in any way. I'm just saying I bet you weren't on your moral high horse before the British got involved.

UB3R~JKP

16th November 2010, 03:48 PM

It's hilarious just how wrong yo are OBH, ive been arrested for waving palestein flags, and have always had a hatred for Saddam because of his antics. So, dont ****ing stand there and say I only hate the BA, because buddy you don't know ****. That was the funniest accusation i've ever heard, do yourself a favour and look up the green brigade

Oh and also; Saddam and his "hundreds of thousands" ahahaha, what a load of pash, how many do you think the british army have slewn?
Isreal eh? Guess who backed them up...i'm not gonna say cause i might burst that little bubble in your head that you can talk down on me regarding militant matters, seriously...try me and boy you'll be chasing your tail

So, if the BA aren't interested in killing civilains but are after tyrants, why haven't they went after Mugabi? They giving too much oil to the british army? aww, how cute! How does it feel to be an awesome guy? I don't think they are even lookin for anything in I raq anymore!

How much longer can you ignore fact?

THE UNION JACK WAS KNOWN FOR YEARS AS THE BUTCHERS APRON...HOW DOES IT FEEL

Aeroracer

16th November 2010, 04:26 PM

You do have a point abour mugabi being allowed to continue yet saddam was not..obviously other interests involved..like oil as u say.

But u talk of the ba as if they decide what to do.the ba are basically a group of kids.thye do whatever our govement tell them too.most soldiers try t do their job well.aid protection or combat. Support.whatever is requested of them.

Medusa

16th November 2010, 04:26 PM

Hey guys, let's just calm down here, don't forget that "nationalism is the new religion" so everybody's going to feel very strongly about their country just like it's a religion (how many times do hear "I"m doing this for my country") The fact is that a lot of people join the army to "serve their country" they may not agree with what they end up doing but they chose to sign up in the first place.
Although not all who wear poppies/observe memorial services agree with all of the things done by the troops they are supporting, the fact is that the celebration itself is to support the past and current troops. So please don't bash each other over this. One person refuses to support those who participate in war. The next person doesn't necessarily agree with war yet supports troops because they are humans in need of compassion as well. If we all agreed with everybody there'd be nothing going on in this forum, but we can still be nice huh? Calm down, we don't need to attack each other's personal beliefs.

UB3R~JKP

16th November 2010, 04:31 PM

Look guys, I never treat the BA as individuals but as an entity...something that has went under the radar of OBH. Check my posts for proof, my mate is in the BA, as an individual he is not a bloodthirsty demon who wants to kill. But as a soldier he has become a figure for what the typical british and american soldiers are becoming, i've warned him that much about my view of his work.

The individuals treat their country, but together they are fighting for a darker "cause". It's unfortunate but true and JJ you are spot on about the government-they do not care for the lives they are sacrificing!

In conclusion: These individuals are fighting for the wrong reasons, they should've expected nothing less when they enrolled.

Medusa

16th November 2010, 04:34 PM

Yeah, it is really sad how people sign control of their life away to the decisions of complete strangers with (usually) different values than their own. Once you're in, not like you can just run off without getting a record if you disagree with the "reasons" you're fighting.

OBH

16th November 2010, 05:06 PM

Oh and also; Saddam and his "hundreds of thousands" ahahaha, what a load of pash
You saying he didn't kill people? I hope you didn't take me comment as a belief that we went to war for was for anything other than oil, I was simply talking about mass civilian murder.

Isreal eh? Guess who backed them up...
America predominantly. Second or third highest recipient of "American assistance".

It's hilarious just how wrong yo are OBH, ive been arrested for waving palestein flags, and have always had a hatred for Saddam because of his antics. So, dont ****ing stand there and say I only hate the BA, because buddy you don't know ****. That was the funniest accusation i've ever heard, do yourself a favour and look up the green brigade

I stand corrected. You have my wholehearted, and embarrassed, apologies for my inaccurate accusations.

It wasn't meant to be a personal attack or anything on you mate. The comment about seeing the BA as a whole just got to me, as my original reason for bringing this up was to defend the individuals, the families, of the people who lose their family in war.
Of course I'm aware that we do some terrible things around the world as a nation, I just feel that the innocent people who live here shouldn't be tarnished with the same brush, and wish these people a peaceful day when they get to proudly remember their lost children for who they were, not for their job.

UB3R~JKP

16th November 2010, 05:09 PM

He killed people, he was wrong...as are the BA. I'm not defending him, i'm talking about numbers to be frank.

I'm happy enough to bury the hatchet and i'm sorry if I have offended you.

Aeroracer

16th November 2010, 05:31 PM

I wish these individuals in govement could be held personally resposible for their actions.we are meant to live in a democracy but we do not.every day they make decisions against the majority of the populas. Look at blair.he killed 1000,s just so he could be bddies with bush.he wrote his total s**T book and donates the money to the dead soldiers he sentenced to death..obviously for more fame ..how nice life could have been if he was never born.in reality inocents suffer whilst p**ck like him play power games with other p****S free from Accoutabilty apart from some bad press.