Do all icaras players hate using weapons?

[OBH]

Apologies if theres a thread like this, but i couldnt find/remember one.

Naturally different people prefer different race modes, whatever it my be, but has anyone else noticed the large majority of players who dislike using weapons during multiplayer races are icaras players? :)

Im not having a go here :), It makes perfect sense really, its the fastest ship, its low shield means much absorbing for BR fuel 8), and being the SL/TT king many players will be very much accustomed to racing with no weapons.

The bit that confuses me the most however, is im surprised how many people flat out refuse to use a weapon at all!!! Weather it be they feel guilty, or believe they are fast enough to not need to use weapons.

While Id totally agree with anyone who says winning a race with no weapons is 10x more difficult, personally ive always believed weapons require far more skill than they're generally given credit for (bar the infuriating bombs & mines of course), and as ive never really wanted to use icaras, ive always needed to be aware of this crazy fast ship that in the right hands is very, very difficult to beat with my mediocre racing lines alone.

But yeah, I was wondering you guys think of this? icaras and non icaras players alike. Think im talking rubbish? :beer

[yeldar2097]

Yes :nod

[amplificated]

While I hate using weapons, I don't use the Icaras online at all. I do like using it in SL though!

I think it's possibly players that like SL moreso than just the Icaras itself who dislike weapons.

[OBH]

@amplificated
I always presumed liking SL/TT & Icaras goes hand for most people? :)
Why dont you like them online out of interest. My guess would be the shield.

@yeldar
yes you agree, or yes im talking rubbish? :beer

[amplificated]

I don't use it online because I think most newbs think it's "the win ship". So I prove I can beat them with anything else, even if it's all unsaid or even made up in my own mind :lol
Which ship you use is a bigger deal in the slower speed classes, and I just about never race in Phantom - rather, mostly rapier; but lately, I haven't been playing online at all. Actually, when it comes to Phantom, I don't think ship choice matters much at all really... Depends on technique followed by the luck of the draw with items, and to a lesser extent, the track. I guess on Sebenco, the Icaras would be less favoured than a ship with more shields and better handling.

Online is also a handy opportunity to rack up points for other teams since I've probably made over a million points if it counted that high for Icaras :P

Shields don't bother me in the slightest, I hardly ever get actually eliminated in a race no matter what ship I use, and BR's always take up the same % of energy. The tracks aren't nearly as demanding in rapier as they are in phantom.

[haiku]

Here let me give you the typical narrative of an Icaras pilot that isn't yeldar2097, wizardplay, w5lx, danteric, or concrete_d but somehow still manages to place top 3 often enough:

"Oh no I am not at the very front of the starting grid I have no hope of grabbing the first pick up and I since I don't have the thrust to get me out ahead in time. I guess I will just rely on the first speed pad to keep up with everyone!"

"Whew, glad I hit that pad and am in the pack, oh wait now everyone has weapons and I am getting missiles, rockets, and quakes up my ass. Oh cool now a bomb too."

"hm what a predicament for my poor Icaras craft as I am 2/3rds through the first lap and am at 50% health from getting my face beaten in and rammed into every objectg that happens to be vertically sticking up from the track."

"finally, I am hitting some pick-ups, I better get my health back up so I can start using BRs every chance I get to try and make my way back to the podium".

So it's not that I hate using weapons, it's that I never have the opportunity because I am usually using them to heal because my hello kitty colored ground rocket can't take first lap punishment from the harimau's, AG-Sys, and goteki's of the world. I'm willing to admit I am still doing something very wrong as my best times are usually in the top 200 and occasionally I break the top 100, and I play with some of the best of WOZ pilots often enough and see them finish in the top 30 using Icaras with plenty of weapons.

As an aside to this long and uninteresting post: I am considering moving away from Icaras because of this recurrent experience of getting rammed and shot up too much. I beat the entire HD/Fury campaigns on elite gold with AG-Sys and maybe I should go back to that or Harimau. I'm honest enough to admit that it's the Icaras top speed that gets me on the podium so it's addicting to keep using.

[yeldar2097]

I don't really think it matters that much which ship one chooses to use online. It's just that, a choice.

Feisar ain't fast (esp pre-fury) and Welly caned most people . As did wowo with his AG-SYS. As did *Insert PSN* with his *Insert Ship*.

Same with weps really, some choose to use them, some choose not to. I only started using weps recently. Can't really say it makes that much difference to be honest, not in the long run at least.

That aside, there are deffers some Icaras pilots who are weapons-crazed-trigger-happy-maniacs :nod ^_^

[brainbeat]

Well described haiku, sounds like me When I am racing on phantom,

[shapealot]

i use icaras+ and i never really fire a shot as ive said somewhere before i need all the energy i can get for BRs, it is fun to fire a few at youre friends though when theyre not expecting it. personally i think the online leaderboards dont mean much anyway as its based on luck of the weapons or boosts, surely if it was just about weapons then why have a leaderboard at all. in all honesty i use online to have fun tryna do all the fun BRs but thats just me i suppose. do whatever brings a smile to youre face :D

edit: im not tryna get any online records at all never have

[stinkleroy]

I pilot both Icaras and mainly AG online, and before some crazy patch hit this game last year I had absolutely no problems with weapons at all. But now I loathe to use them. Yes I know the game is called 'WipEout', yes I know weapons are and always have been part of the game but this game is FUBAR. I come from a 2097 background in which weapons were meant only to kill your shields...not slow you down to a complete halt and take at least 5 seconds to get going again....I mean come on, thats just ridiculous. The weapon randomisation is insane also, Ive gone through a 20 lap online race and recieved countless mines and bombs yet only 3 turbos!! WTH I don't recall this game being like this before June/July last year, and I really do feel that it was sony's intent to make the game easier for people to play.

I guess people take different things from wipeout, but for me....it's about going fast. There's no feeling like overtaking someone in a race because your lines were better, I gain no sense of accomplishment from blasting my way to victory at all. And thats why I stay away from online these days. Too many people out for glory creating a horrible race environment. You know, I'd never even touched TT till last year and I played solely online since release day. That makes me kind of sad that I've had to let go of my favourite mode, but hey ho....green races rule and Im always up for a friendly green/no weaps challenge. This league was born because I'm not the only one who feels this way. And for the green haters...well a simple solution to the leaderboard times is to play green races at 6 or more laps. Simple.... :)

[OBH]

I don't really think it matters that much which ship one chooses to use online. It's just that, a choice.

Feisar ain't fast (esp pre-fury) and Welly caned most people . As did wowo with his AG-SYS. As did *Insert PSN* with his *Insert Ship*.

you must remember pre fury it was either icaras, or AGS? :) in the same vain as what im saying about icaras, its totally understandable why ags were so popular pre fury, icaras being the fastest, AGS (was) the best all rounder, but with a MASSIVE shield.

Wellington was an exception to the rule, he was a badman in that feisar :)

Take harimau FURY now, you said yourself its the most improved ship and all rounder, no wonder when we raced earlier 4/5 players were harimau.

Granted, if you are good enough with whatever ship you choose, you will be competitive, but dont you think there are some ships you stand more chance of winning / improving with?


Same with weps really, some choose to use them, some choose not to. I only started using weps recently. Can't really say it makes that much difference to be honest, not in the long run at least.

That i really dont understand. How can being rocketed off the bridge on AP, or being destroyed in one hit by a plasma "not make much difference" :beer

[ACE-FLO]

well a simple solution to the leaderboard times is to play green races at 6 or more laps. Simple.... :)

That sounds like the best solution to GREEN races. 6 Laps for GREEN league races/tourneys :) A very fair solution imo :) nice one Cat :+

I said it before but we've hadf countless threads in WZ about unfair times on leaderboards - gotten by questionable methods. This solution does sit well with me, and our lil universe which is wipEout... 6 laps green ftw, roll it someone please :)

AS for update 1.30 and before all that, I have no idea - I came late to the party, did I miss something? I think HD+Fury plays a lot like Pulse did online - cept with less DC's and its more fun with more peeps online. (Pulse servers are a haunting experience). And for me, I like the online aspect - offline i don't have the patience for unfortunately.

Having said all that about Icaras being a paper ship - I'm no Icaras hater, I actually love the team to bits (in Flash I ususally fly Piranha or Icaras) :) Just wanna let that be known. AG-SYS is my baby though :g

[yeldar2097]

Granted, if you are good enough with whatever ship you choose, you will be competitive, but dont you think there are some ships you stand more chance of winning / improving with?

Well you were pretty competitive earlier and you were using EG-X+ which is a POS :P

Personally no, I don't think ship choice makes the slightest bit of difference in the outcome of a race. Maybe if you're racing with a ship that it far removed from what you're used to, like using Triakis HD in the place of Feisar etc... then maybe it'll be a bit uncomfortable for the first few corners but that's it. If you're good enough to win a race, you can do it in any ship. In SL I suppose you do kinda want as much speed at your disposal as possible but online it really doesn't matter, it's just whatever you prefer to use.

Greenix - Harimau
TCK - Harimau/AG-SYS
Kingheim - EG-X
Haydn - Piranha/Mirage/Harimau/EG-X (loyal isn't he :lol )
eLhabib - Assegai/Auricom/Qirex
Wotan - AG-SYS
Elois - Feisar/Icaras
Welly - Feisar
Hellfire - Qirex
Pirhapac - Assegai/Harimau (I think he was assagai before??)
*Insert name of famous pilot* - *insert ship of choice*

Not meaning to miss anyone out or get any of the ships wrong, the list could go on forever :nod
Point is, if you're fast, it's because you're fast, not because of your ship, that's just personal preference :g

Btw originally (thanks for the reminder LeeRoy :g) I think it was suggested that the Green League would be 6 or more laps anyways. From my point of view, if you choose not to use weapons that's fine. If you choose to hammer the fire button even when you don't have a weapon that's fine too. You've chosen to race that way, you don't have to, so don't go bitching when people aren't shooting you (WTF? :P) or if people shoot you too much. Don't tell other people in your room not to shoot you unless it's a pre-arranged thing, and don't tell people that it's a non-absorb room if that's been pre-arranged (see Hardcore League).

Some race to beat their PBs (and hopefully everyone else in the process), some race exclusively for the win regardless of how it happens. Either way, deal with it. It's good that we're not all the same, otherwise things get a bit boring innit :nod

[AspenExcel]

Haha, ACE-FLO has heard my speech about this topic before. Weapons do nothing but upset me (aside from green weapons). I'll be racing along in perfect line when I'm suddenly slowed to screeching halt by a lapped bomb or mines. Or I'll be hit by a quake then the people behind me think it's cool to kick me while I'm down and throw rockets my way while I'm still trying to recover.

To me, winning by just blowing the other racer(s) to smithereens doesn't prove you are a great racer at all. Having to rely on weapons as a crutch to win is a serious weakness. I prefer to win by having the best lines which is why usually I'll do two races on each track if I am hosting a race. One with weapons on, and another with weapons off just to make sure that the weapons-on race was not just a fluke. I only use weapons if antagonized first, or purely in defense.

I'll admit I aim for top times on the leaderboard with every race, but that's usually a matter of luck and getting a ton of boosts.

[KIGO1987]

Well if you go back in the early days of HD when it was launched in September 2008 things where different, it was a smaller community, and players that played alot back then, you dont see at all only anymore. Wellington, etc. Things have changed alot for the game, since there is no new content coming out for this game in the near future like another well bloody deserved DLC pack, people have resulted to creating alot of leagues, Green League just being one of them. Still the records obtained from Green League events and similar races are like oil on top of water, it sits ontop, but its doesnt mix the the rest at all. Green League obtained records should have a records table of there own, and shouldnt be recognizes with the other records acquired in online multiplayer.

As for Icarus, i race that ship in elite single player and some online races with the weapons on. Tracks include Anaulpha Pass, Sol2 and Moa Therma. But the default ship for Fury would have to be the Harimau hands down, its made a bloody good transformation from its but ugly look from HD to Fury, now it is a pretty awesome looking ship that is also a good all rounder. If the shields actually meant something online ill probably fall back onto Triakis for online eliminator battles.

[ACE-FLO]

Haha, ACE-FLO has heard my speech about this topic before. Weapons do nothing but upset me ... I'll be racing along in perfect line when I'm suddenly slowed to screeching halt by a lapped bomb or mines. Or I'll be hit by a quake then the people behind me think it's cool to kick me while I'm down and throw rockets my way while I'm still trying to recover.
Happens to everyone, not just you mate... it's the name of the game wipEout...


To me, winning by just blowing the other racer(s) to smithereens doesn't prove you are a great racer at all. Having to rely on weapons as a crutch to win is a serious weakness.
Weapons are not a crutch - the game billed as a "High Speed Anti-Gravity Combat Racer" - emphasis on the Combat! Use of Weapons is in the intended nature of the game, and franchise for that matter - however there are options to turn weps off for the purists out there ;)


I prefer to win by having the best lines which is why usually I'll do two races on each track if I am hosting a race. One with weapons on, and another with weapons off just to make sure that the weapons-on race was not just a fluke. I only use weapons if antagonized first, or purely in defense.
A good way to race - I like that, and have been in your rooms before - mighty fun! One weps on, one weps off... I love the weps on btw. Cannon ftw lol


I'll admit I aim for top times on the leaderboard with every race, but that's usually a matter of luck and getting a ton of boosts.
You're very fast Unc - luck is with the pick ups tho isn't it? proving my point (Use of Weapons)... everything else can be attributed to the skillset you have developed with the format :)


...the records obtained from Green League events and similar races are like oil on top of water, it sits ontop, but its doesnt mix the the rest at all.
How well put is that :+ 6 laps is all good for GREEN league though, that way the oil doesn't affect/pollute out waters :D

[OBH]

Personally no, I don't think ship choice makes the slightest bit of difference in the outcome of a race.

If 2 yeldars were racing each other an anulpha pass with no weapons, one was Icaras, one was Gotecki, and both had 5 perfect laps, who'd have won the race? :) How many of you just shouted out Icaras? :beer your saying you think it doesnt make even the smallest bit of difference, honestly?


In SL I suppose you do kinda want as much speed at your disposal as possible but online it really doesn't matter, it's just whatever you prefer to use.

Youve admitted you do kinda need icaras for TT/SL correct? So what are 'weapons off races' if not a TT with other players? :) Alright, i know there are other factors involved in a race, but i hope you understand the point im trying desperately to make :beer

[amplificated]

The emphasis of "High Speed Anti-Gravity Combat Racer" is what the line leads up to: racing! Getting to the finish line as fast as possible is the name of the game! Combat is just a throwaway word there that adds a little spice, but no skill ;)

And there's nothing pure about being BR-restricted either :P

Weapons are too random say that being able to use them effectively is a skill. It's completely unfair to have one or more opponents blasting you with weapons while you're simply incapable of providing any resistance due to the fact you're getting cannons and that's it. Or being stuck in second by a hair and being unable to get any pickups for most of the lap because the guy in front is getting them all and using them to maintain that lead.

[OBH]

but thats just not true, either slow down so the pad appears, or go for the speed pads and catch up.

You say its not a skill, yet dont posses the skills to get around your problems.

You know peoples main problem is prolific absorbing, at least wait until your near another weapon pad so you get another :beer

[yeldar2097]

Well it's possible that the yeldar flying with the Goteki would win because he'd shoot into the lead at the start. Yeldar's Icaras is faster, yes, but both yeldar's have an atrocious internet connection so the Icaras-dar will have massive difficulty getting past. If he get's close he won't really be able to get his hands on any weapons so Goteki-dar will be able to BR more and shoot the crap out of the Icaras. Could happen :nod

TT/SL you have as many tries as you want. Weapons off races demand consistency right from the word 'GO'. Consistency is easiest to achieve using a ship you know very well i.e. whatever you use normally.
Anyways, nobody uses weapons in weapons off races :P

I love weapons (except for overpowered rockets (don't even pretend you don't agree because you're lying :P), lapped people shooting me and lapping awkwardly placed bombs), they make things ever so exciting....and tactical to boot. Using them has it's advantages and it's disadvantages. It's exactly the same if you don't use them, there are pros and cons. Choose whichever set of pros and cons you like and let everyone else race with the ones they prefer.

[OBH]

now your just trying to be clever :beer

[ACE-FLO]

Haydn, point well made... I was shouting Icaras LOL. And yeah, I get what you're saying too... but whatever the case, the Icaras ship is weak, if it starts out back, i'm giving it hell :D care not :g

If i'm racing in one though - I got no one but myself to blame if I blow up :lol straight as it is, i'm no sore loser... but if I win in one, I know one thing, I wouldnt have used as much weps as I would have in any other ship.. SO yes, in keeping with the thread title, I agree with you Haydn. That's just me. Are there others? unc already admitted he donesnt like to use them because he need his shield energy for BR's... it's a good point.

What ship you choose to race with, does influence how you play the game. For example, gimme a Piranha, and I'll love to barge you sometime!!! Not with the Icaras tho :lol

[OBH]

I understand your point, and agree with most, but lets try and not turn this into BR / Weapons flaming, somones already put "community bitchoff" as a tag :(

I have griefs.... well, not 'griefs' as such, more annoyances at peoples misconceptions :) but can honestly say at no stage has anything 'ruined my experience' :)

edit:

What ship you choose to race with, does influence how you play the game.
:+ exactly what im saying, weather it be barging, shooting, or racing with no weapons :)

[yeldar2097]

I'm sorry but nobody can be 'skilled' enough with random weapons to dominate a room time after time; the level of skill that the weapons allow for isn't anywhere near high enough. It plays a certain roll, but not a great one. You want weapons tactics, play Blur. If we were talking about that I'd wholeheartedly agree with you Kigo, but in Wipeout, no, sorry. It's not that there's no skill involved, it's just more common sense than anything else. People who don't use weapons can avoid weapons too.
Anyway, they are deliberately NOT buggering up your race, what's there to complain about?

Coming first in a Icaras because you think you use less weaps so you can BR? You can BR just as much in any ship. In fact, in an Icaras you'd need to absorb less to get more BRs because your shield % goes up by more per weapon than any other ship, so even though your shields are a bit rubbish, it doesn't really make much difference if you get shot because you can get back to 100% more easily. The only time it will make much difference is if you either in the melee at the start of a race and get unlucky, or if you're hovering around the 10-15% mark, in which case you won't be BRing at all.

[Darkdrium777]

Do all Icaras players hate using weapons? > I don't know about that, I'm not an Icaras player. However I'm fairly certain I would use them if I used Icaras.

Now I'm gonna address a few points made in here (but only once)

Are there ships that allow you to win more easily? > No. I don't believe so. What makes the good players win more easily is the fact that they are better players at the time of the races. The end. I won with Goteki and I think everyone will agree that this ship does not make it easy. But I still use it because of the reasons I chose it, and also because I'm one of the few left. I don't win often, sometimes being 3-4 against the best players, but then these players are better than me and so they win. Sometimes though I win against them, and I was better that time, this is simply how it works.

Do weapons require skill? > Yes. Someone who knows how to use weapons more effectively will get more hits than people who don't. Knowing how to use weapons can grant you a victory. Yes indeed, it can. Some people have a problem with that, I can understand. But the name of the game is WipEout, and there are weapons. So in races where they are active, it's either use them strategically, or learn how to avoid them, but you cannot say that using weapons to win is a weakness. It is a strength to know how and when to use weapons. Using weapons is a mind game, you have to think how to put your current weapon to it's best use. If you can't, absorb and roll the dice when you pick another up.

[OBH]

@D777
:+:+:+
A calm, collected comment amidst the passionate ranting, from a rare dying breed of goteki pilots :)

[Aeroracer]

i think icarus players dont use weapons as much as others because icarus is the favoured ship of TT and SL looking at the leaderboards so these players who are good with them have a plan of just flying perfectly around the track and have no need to shoot cos their are nobody to shoot also they need energy to absorb for their million and one BR..
But the crap icarus players probally use lots of weapons cos they are losing cos they should of stuck to an easy ship..

i like icarus but its too hard for me to use in phantom..im just not good enough..

[SaturnReturn]

I just deleted 46 posts from this thread because it was ridiculously off topic and went off topic from only the 2nd post. If I saw no attempt in the post to be relevant to the question about the relationship between Icaras and using weapons, then I deleted it. That means a lot of people will have wasted a lot of time writing a lot of stuff, some valuable, some not. Unfortunately everyone will just have to deal with that, and if they don't like it, then the answer is simple - stay on topic.

I'd love to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume everyone will get back on topic eventually, but in this case, very few even tried to steer things back. This is happening in an increasing number of threads, and often it's the same individuals involved. I feel thoroughly disappointed about this, and henceforth, if things start going off-topic in such a way, especially when certain people are treating the forum like their own personal chat-box, then I'm just going to delete their posts. End of.

EDIT: Make that 47 posts ;)

[brummpahh]

/topic on/

i'm an Icaras pilot and i'm using lots of nasty weapons.
(sometimes even tactical, lol)
Absorbing is another favorite of mine, but i just can't
avoid a little bomb here and there...
It depends on the mood and the beer-factor;)

[Aeroracer]

@brmmpha thats cos your only a pretend icarus player...you are a assagia player using a icaras true assagai players like you love to blow things up...:hyper:hyper

[ACE-FLO]

stay on topic.

Really SaturnReturn? You didn't see the relevance of Icaras ships / non use of weapons /GREEN races at all? I find this hard to beleive. When I last saw this thread it was 7 pages long, now reduced to only 3 :? The bulk of the debate, which had no trolling - but varied and mixed opinions, from pilots whose opinions on the matter (though varied) were relevant enough to stay on topic through the thread, were deleted...

Yes I can see that a few posts were unnecessary but 47? It's extreme man, that's what I think. You'll probably delete this post next, as it's not really on topic. I'm no moderator, and respect the decisions you make mate, but there were a lot of posts that had valid points bought up in them, which would have otherwise gone unmentioned here at "wipeoutzone" where we discuss all things pertaining to wipeout, and then some!

I hope I havent spoken out of turn, just a bit annoyed that I came here re-read some posts and now they are gone. Not even another thread created for the deleted posts anywhere else on the forum.

[Aeroracer]

i would love to back you up ace but unfortunatley the posts were deleted before i read them..so who knows how good/bad they were...
maybe they should create a crap thread where all deleted stuff goes so players who missed out can go and read..but then on second thoughts they dont need too they can just go and visti my threads instead :donut

back on topic...

when i use icarus i never shoot weapons cos im always absorbing just to stay alive and not die from my naff flying...:bat

my overall opinion of icaras is you wont reap any of the benifits of this fast ship unless you are really hot at the track your playing..from my experience most icaras's lose races and if they win their pretty much unbatable..i never see a average one alwasy one or th other..

[DreamyElf]

so we are supposed to give robotic and simple answers of a yes or no i see, since through discussion its logical to get a little of topic.
anyway, so my answer to the first question is YES.

[OBH]

Really SaturnReturn? You didn't see the relevance of Icaras ships / non use of weapons /GREEN races at all?
It was turning into GREEN League flaming a bit....
I didnt realise there was such a large number of crazy posts in here, but its hardly surprising.

There was an awful lot of unrelated (though relatively funny) bs in here. Dont get too wound about it mate :)


I love weapons (except for overpowered rockets (don't even pretend you don't agree because you're lying :P), lapped people shooting me and lapping awkwardly placed bombs)
I missed this quote before, and to answer, i love rockets :) i dont like being shot by rockets as im lapping someone, but to be honest, i think i only like them because after having a lengthy break from wipeout.... ive kinda forgotten how much less brutal they used to be :nod I could put the kettle on quicker than i could get back up to speed.

[ACE-FLO]

NO Haydn, nobody flamed the GREEN league. And it was all relevant, since you asked the question "Do all Icaras pilots hate using weapons?" YES they BLOODY do... they even have their own league called GREEN league and they get unfair times through it... wtf was wrong with that op? If things get heated and passionate here, sop what? that's a good thing,and before mods start running it - no one flamed anyone or anything!

I can see why you feel this way though Haydn, seems every thread you start is a controversial one - and you hate the stigma attached to you with these threads tyou create... this was not a big deal at all . The thread was interesting, had mixed opinions, and a lot of valid points...

But since all that content is now deleted, I'm starting a thread aspecifically about the GREEN league. There. Off topic that. :g

[Danterich]

now, that i race Mirage lately i gotta shout out that i LOVE MY WEAPONS :twisted:rock:banzai

[OBH]

You sir are a legend :)

See, in my little head, someone learning the wonders of weapons simply by switching teams says a lot. Naturally your going to enjoy races that are better suited to the characteristics of your ship.

As an example, i bet im not the only one who uses triakis or pirahna in elimination matches? :beer

[ACE-FLO]

Haydn - awesome races bud :D and for this above comment :+ thank you, weps rule with the right ships ;) in the right hands of course :D

[Danterich]

lol haydn and lol ace :beer

i like green races in icaras(rapier and lower) too...successful pacifist x 917 :nod

[SaturnReturn]

I hope I havent spoken out of turn, just a bit annoyed that I came here re-read some posts and now they are gone. Not even another thread created for the deleted posts anywhere else on the forum.

I've done that a few times recently, i.e created another thread when things went off topic. But people aren't showing signs of learning from that and taking the initiative themselves so this time I just wasn't in the mood for being quite so helpful. There's no infraction for people constantly going off topic, and I couldn't be bothered to try politely explaining it to people who have been members for ages and should already know better.

In my opinion, by the end this thread was just people repeating points over and over about whether weapons on/off, or green races were good/bad/better. Believe me, very little of anything new was actually said. There were one or two points made that could be considered relevant, but they were repeated so many times, and that's partly why there were so many deleted posts. People need to learn when they've made their point and then just leave it there. You only had to look at the multiple times that the argument "it's called wipeout" was made to realise that it had reduced into a pointless repetitive loop. Aside from that it was just banter at the end. I'm fine with banter, but there was just way too much of it.

I started off and I thought, "if it gets back on topic I'll leave all this green league stuff". But it just never did. Given that I'd read OBH trying to get things back on topic, it seemed to me even the OP thought it was too far off, which reinforced my opinion. Then when the OP states that the thread has descended into madness, I thought to myself, "yeah I should definitely tidy this up". By the time I'd read through it all and given any serious posts consideration, the whole thing had taken a **** off long time and I wasn't exactly in the mood for mincing my words.

Finally, apologies to OBH as I'm being off topic here too, but if people are going to criticise me this way then I think I deserve the right to reply. If people want to criticise me in future though, it's best to do it on my profile page so that it doesn't further derail threads.

[TarquinFarqhuar]

[QUOTE=ACE-FLO;177168]NO Haydn, nobody flamed the GREEN league. And it was all relevant, since you asked the question "Do all Icaras pilots hate using weapons?" YES they BLOODY do... they even have their own league called GREEN league and they get unfair times through it...

NO they BLOODY don't, I've got some vids of an Ica pilot usin' his weapons to their full potential..