Frustrated With This Game...(Help Me)

[YoshiXL]

Ok...let's start things off with this. I hate when people go on message boards to whine about certain things and yet here i go, doing exactly just that. but i guess the good thing is i admit what im doing lol.

Anyways, i have been a longtime fan of the WO series having played it as my first game on my psx and have got all the console versions (yes, even WO64), so im not a complete n00b to the series. I finally got a ps3 for X-Mas because my fiancee got tired of me begging for one so that i can get WOHD. I started playing it, and wow... i was taken back a bit lol. The game looks amazing, and the whole style of the game is there, but.. i noticed something was weird about it.

The gameplay was totally changed (yeah, i know im a well over a year too late on this huh? lol). I remember playing (and beating) all of the psx versions of wipeout without too much trouble except near the end. but this game (and Fusion) are just ridiculous. another thing that could be is that maybe im just getting old and my reflexes arent that good anymore (i noticed this in other games too). Right off the start i went straight for the Elite difficulty and managed to barely squeeze by the first Event with all golds, then after that it all went bad. So bad that i had to go all the way to novice.

Now im stuck on the final Event: Meltdown, where i cant beat any of the races on Phantom class. These damn tracks are WAAAAAAY too narrow and one nasty turn after another. I've looked at the tutorial videos and FAQ's, but they make it look too easy and effortlesly. when i race, its pretty much known that ill hit every single wall when turning. Of course i airbrake but maybe thats where im doing it wrong. Am I supposed to ever let off the accelerator? (cuz i dont) when i turn left i use Left Air brake, and Right for the right turns and it seems they just help me slam into a wall faster lol. Im just losing my patience here because i used to not be this bad before at the other games, but then again that was years ago.

If someone out there could just kinda help a fellow old man out by giving me some pointers for turning properly in this game, it would be much appreciated. im sorry i had to make a whole new topic about it mates, just kinda losing my cool here with this.

[Zoth-Ommog]

Well i guess there's no fast way around to get on with the physics of WipEout HD.

I'm none to tell you what to do, but you really should try different ships on different tracks, and you can always practise the track in timetrial and speelap, it's easier to get hang of the track since AI is not messing around.

Regarding airbrakes, i never let go the accelerator, there may and there IS people who do it otherway. One important thing besides airbrakes, is sideshifting. When you can phase shidesifts correctly, it will help a lot.

And you can always use "pilot assist" to get hang of the things, and when you feel ready, you can turn it off and enjoy the game like good ol' days!

[kanar]

hey YoshiXL, check this thread (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7171), in the 3rd and 7rd post, you'll find very useful links to enhance your hd experience. Regarding what you said, I should admit I was kinda disoriented myself too when hd was released. I was used to pulse handling by that time, & I said to myself "wtf with these ships bouncing everywhere?" & "wtf with this crazy AI elite ships?" then I decided to practice & practice & little by little this game hooked me, & now I'm way too much addicted with it. If you're taking your time to learn the tracks & ship reactions, you'll see elite AI won't be a big deal in a few days. Put your own music too, if it's not already the case, that can help to enhance the experience. Must admit hd is not something common, I mean this game is a bitch, even today I'm feeling like a noob sometimes, I like to call it the hardest game ever... And "teh" best game ever. Why am I so addicted like that LOL. Gah just read you already checked Hellfire's faq maybe. Maybe you could change your control settings like that (old school stuff lol); accellerating 10%, airbrakes 10%, airbrakes on r1/l1... Try different settings, I'm sure you'll find something good for you. And yeah check Zoth's advices, he made good points there.

[blackwiggle]

When you say you can't beat any of races in Phantom class,are you still talking about against the elite AI,or is this at novice as well?

Join Date Jan 2004, with 40 posts, 6.6 posts a year,you don't talk much do you?;):)

As has been mentioned previously,plenty of speed laps & Time trials sure help.
Nothing beat track familiarity,that's been true for all previous wipeout's as well,if you want the results you got to put in the practice.
It sounds like you just haven't got the timing of the track at Phantom speed yet,when to start air braking,turning etc

Unlike previous wipeouts [Pre Pure/Pulse]where you just held down the air brake & steered to get you around a tight corner, with HD/Fury that will slow you down too much,you need to do small, shorter taps of the air brakes.
If you double tap an air brake quickly it will side shift your craft 1 craft width towards the side whose air brakes you double tapped,combine that while steering and you can take even the worse hairpin easily.

Try adjusting your air brakes in the menu,a low % = More sensitive,it can make a hell of a lot of difference,same with changing air brake controls to L1R1 ,I'm sure you would feel more comfortable with that set up being a old timer.:)

[Temet]

Yeah, I know what you feel guy, I'm almost an old relic too ;)

I stopped playing video games for years ... but when a colleague of mine bought a PS3, I subtly suggested him to by WOHD (ie : "Please, please, please" ;) ).
I played a few hours with him and caught back the virus.

I then bought a PSP with Pure and Pulse.

First, I played only Pure.
The handling was not very far from WO 2097 but the challenge far more high !!!! To be clear : WO1 was hard, WO2097 and W3O were really easy.
Pure is hard to... when you're stopped by a wall or a weapon, it takes AGES to gain some speed.

Once I got all gold medals in Pure, packs included, I started Pulse.

I was first very disapointed with the handling, it's a bit "racing game for dummies". The airbrakes don't airbrake anymore, just make you turn more... humpf.
But Pulse as a big advantage, it's really fraking FAST !!!!!! Dude, seriously, speedest WO I ever played (maybe WO64 was faster but I only tried it once with a Friend).


Then I bought a PS3 and yeah, I have to admit I miss having the back of my ship sliding when I use airbrakes... but I was able to finish quite easily the campaign in medium mode (= "skills" I think in English). Now I started to redo it in "Elite" mode, and yes AI is really strong. For example it tooks me at least 10 or 15 tries to win Sol2 in Flash!!! My advice : use Icaras... it's the only ship I can catch the others. I used to be Ag-Sys guy in medium but in hard I couldn't catch the others.

And more important : learn were speedpads are, they are way more important than in PS1 WO games ;)


PS : I'm still terrified with the idea to race the tournaments in "Elite"... :paperbag

[leungbok]

But Pulse as a big advantage, it's really fraking FAST !!!!!! Dude, seriously, speedest WO I ever played (maybe WO64 was faster but I only tried it once with a Friend)

I feel fusion faster than pulse, but i never played wo64.


In elite the AI cheats with the weapons. Once you'll be used with the tracks difficulties, you can always turn the weapons off ;)

[Temet]

I've never played Fusion :P
Really good idea to turn off the weapons... except in campaign you don't have the choice.

[yeldar2097]

Lots of great advice here already so I won't add to it, it'd probably just end up contradicting/repeating (either way;)) the advise already given.

However:

Am I supposed to ever let off the accelerator?

Never, it's a sin. Glad to see you don't do it :g

Actually when I have a bit more time I may add to this post, depends on what others say in the meantime :)

Good luck!

[kaori]

Just one word Yoshi : training.
We all was affraid by difficulty first time we've tried some races in Campaign.

Ships in Fusion go faster than Pulse, but the tracks are bigger too... If you proportionately confront the sensations of speed or handlings, I think WipEout Pulse is more dynamic ;)

[mic-dk]

Letting off the accellerator



Never, it's a sin. Glad to see you don't do it :g


Actually there are two corners where I do it sometimes. Chengou (forward), first hairpin and Ubermall (forward), last hairpin. I sometimes let go for 0.15sec to save an otherwise horrible line. It's way faster than slamming the wall unless there's someone on the outside you can use as a buffer :P

Then again, my performance isn't exactly stellar, so my advice can safely be ignored.

[il_mago_di_Doz]

It took a lot of time to me to manage the speed in WOHD... But I can say one thing: I'm playing WOHD since some months ago, but every single day I've spent on it, helped me improving my driving. A lot. So I think you just have to practise :nod

[Xavier]

Yoshi, I'm new to this game too -- just started two weeks ago!

My problem was with the lack of explanation on how to play, since there's no manual, but Hellfire's FAQ does a great job of explaining that.

I'm finding Novice a bit on the easy side (gold on my first try takes the fun out) and Skilled to be just right, except in Zone, where both are too easy.

There's no particular advantage, points-wise, in getting your golds in Elite rather than in Novice, so go ahead and choose whatever skill level best balances fun and challenge for you.

[Koleax]

when i turn left i use Left Air brake, and Right for the right turns and it seems they just help me slam into a wall faster lol.

In the PSX games the airbrakes would actually slow you down quite significantly during a turn but in HD they don't nearly as much, so perhaps you are oversteering. You may find a lot of improvement by turning less than you think you need to. Oversteering was not much of a problem in the PSX games because of the wider tracks as well.

Also, it sounds like you are using the airbrakes as your primary turning mechanism? I'm not sure how that would work outside of Zone, but I know it wouldn't work well for me at all. I use the stick to steer and the occasional barrel roll (which you will need in Phantom Elite) and only use airbrakes on the really tight turns.

[YoshiXL]

Thank you much for the replies, and thank you for actually trying to help me out, you guys are really a much more mature bunch here than other forums im used to =) And yeah, i noticed one of you called me out on being a member here since 04 and only having 40 posts LOL, yeah i dont talk much..i kinda just read alot =P

I kept at it last night despite me getting really frustrated (im glad the game is a download and not an actual disc or i may have snapped it in half in rage LOL) I started to do a little better, but not that much better. I still have it on Novice for the final Event in the HD campaign. I have only a few single race events, and 1 or 2 tournaments.

I started doing speedlaps like some of you suggested, and that helped tremendously...but still its too fast for me right now and i noticed that once i hit one wall, i then slam into another and another before i can finally regain my balance. About the "pilot assist", i refuse to use that... i tried it and it pretty much plays the game for you which defeats the whole purpose. Not to mention, i dont think you go as fast with it on...right?

Kanar:thanks for the info on the sensitivity, i did change it to 10% for accelerating and airbrakes and also changed the airbrakes to L1/R1 and Absorb to R2 and now it feels alot better as well =D

Im going to try some new things today, just practice alot of different combinations of steering and airbraking at different times on a particular track until i am satisfied at least for the moment. I think the problem is that i oversteer... but i dont know how to really fix this right now. its just too many control functions when im doing single races...not so much time trials/speed laps. I still dont want to mess with the sideshifting because it really messes me up bad when i do it, so i kinda just stick to normal airbraking.

we'll see how it goes and ill keep you guys posted. thanks again!

[gordo1974]

I know exactly how you feel, YoshiXL. I was pretty competent in 2097 and thought I had wip3out under control as well, but Elite on HD is hard, really damn hard.
I've not got side shifting under control yet, and am 70% of campaign complete on Elite level. There's loads of good advice on this forum, but the one that'll keep coming back is "practice" and I can't re-enforce it enough. When I started i was getting times that were above 100,000 on the global leaderboard and was pretty disheartened, but I tell you, give a few weeks and the rush when you start getting records in top 1000 and then top 500 is worth it. Some people out there are superhuman on HD, so don't worry that Yeldar has a PB 50% better than yours!!
Oh, and glad you don't have pilot assist on, it is shameful!

[crawdad62]

There's loads of good advice on this forum, but the one that'll keep coming back is "practice" and I can't re-enforce it enough.

Yep. Practice. All the tips and tricks are great but you kind of have to have a grasp on the basics and a feel of the tracks before a lot of those make sense. I remember when HD first came out there were only Elite races and I was new to Wipeout. I couldn't see any way in hell you could beat one of the Campaign race on Sebenco Climb. I thought it was virtually impossible. But I kept at it and did nothing but race Sebenco. Finally beat it.

That's my problem now. I don't practice at all. I don't know the Fury tracks well. I can go through the HD tracks in my head but Fury tracks? No way. I don't even have the Campaign done in Fury and I got it the first day. I just get on at night and race online. I've noticed that people are getting better and I'm staying the same. I guess I need to practice!:P

[mic-dk]

Heh, Yoshi, if it makes you feel any better, I think it took me roughly 100 tries to win on Chengou Project on Phantom/Elite for the first time. Suddenly one day I just, you know, got it.

You really should try sideshifting at some point. It is a life savr when you're drifting towards the outside of a corner. A double tap on R1/L1 will correct and save your turn.

PS. You're not the only one here well out of their teens :D

[SaturnReturn]

Shortly after buying this game I really thought I'd completely wasted my money. I just couldn't do it - at all. Then I turned pilot assist off, and I still couldn't do it at all. But even though I was still crashing into walls everywhere, at least I was crashing into the walls I pointed my ship towards. I actually tell what was going on. I'm glad you have turned PA off. That's a good first step.

Maybe you should let yourself crash into walls, without trying to compensate, and see what happens. It sounds to me like you're overcompensating. You may often be surprised at how little it matters that you just hit a wall. Try concentrating on pointing your ship where you want it to go after a wall hit, rather than moving away from the wall. I used to do that too and would do the same thing, i.e. turn into a pinball. I expect you'll get the hang of it eventually.

As for steering, I agree there is a lot of tapping involved in many cases, but I think that once you really start getting the hang of it, you can slide round corners holding the airbrake and then sideshift out, without too much tapping at all. I used to tap a lot as well, but I don't so much now, and seem to be doing better for it. Might not work for everyone though - not saying tapping is the wrong way. Just experiment and practise and find what suits you.

[YoshiXL]

Well, heres my progress. i messed around with alot of different controller setting/sensitivity combinations and finally found something i was pretty much comfortable with, at least for now. I set my sensitivity to 40% on airbrakes and 10% for acceleration. After this i did a few speedlaps and it was a world of difference. I still find myself bouncing off the wall often, but i have a bit more control than before.

I was able to complete the HD campaign on Novice =( and even then, i didnt get gold on all events. the first 2 events i completed on Elite though and all gold, so that counts for something i guess. im just going to keep at it, and i can see it getting better and better. i think i just expect to be good too soon. For now, im going to complete the Fury campaign then i will focus on either trophies and/or Elite campaign completions.

thanks again for everyone's help!

[Temet]

Yeah, well done Dude!
On my part, I have to win the 8 races tournament in grid 7 in Elite (didn't try yet) and I can fight for the last grid in Elite ;)
Go go go! :)

[Temet]

OMG OMG OMG !!
I happily won the 8 races tournament in grid 7 on first attempt. In fact, I won all till grid 8 in Elite without too much difficulty (except Sol2 in Flash, I ran at least 10 times to get it).
But grid 8 est TOTALLY different!!! Before, each ship tried to win, now they are ALL against you (ie : me)!!!!
At least 10 tries for Anulpha to get gold... Dudes, I got Zico, I usually win easily this track. I've been in 1st place nearly each time but they always shot me !!!!
Imagine, I'm 1st place, I'm on the shortcut before the endline, I fall on the left for the classic BR... I was 8th when I crossed the line...
Or 1st place, I have a boost... I keep it for the right place and I think "They will never catch me back if I can use my boost in the right place". I was killed by a Plasma ... this never happens.

Well, nevermind, I'll beat them all :evil

[ACE-FLO]

virtual training ground... for online races :evil

[Aeroracer]

when i started playing wipeout hd i was crap.i couldnt get past event 3 on novice for a long time.thought it was impossible game.
But.....
i kept playing and i got better and got all the gold elite medals and trnsedance trophy.
most elite races i could win.
point im making something just seem impossible but after practise they become possilbe.just good practise and believe you can do it and it will come cos i have no real talent for computer games cos i dont play enough and i really dont believe in natrual talent either its just how much practice you put in that counts.it was just hard graft and commitment.

[amplificated]

... and i really dont believe in natrual talent either its just how much practice you put in that counts.it was just hard graft and commitment.

Saw that and thought I'd point something out which I had read recently...

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2010/01/bad-at-video-games-your-brain-structure-may-be-at-fault.ars

Sorry for the off-topic post :p

[OneAVGNFan]

I would do the entire campaign on Novice and get all golds. Then, do it again on Skilled and finally on Elite.

I completly skipped Skilled and went straight to Elite. Finish 1st 3 sub-campaigns with all Elite golds.

[Lance]

Amplificated, I think that was at least related to the topic to some degree [although discussion of the brain structure's place in gaming would belong in a separate thread] and its a nice link. Ars Technica is one of my fave sites.

[Z°ⁿε]

im doing campaign on elite. Event 3 is seems impossible.. but i'll finish her soon enough.

[Temet]

Troubles began at Event 5 for me.
Big troubles arrived only at event 8... and are still here :brickwall

[Aeroracer]

hardest things for me on campaign elite were



sol rapier race

sol phantom race
chengu phantom race
sebenco phantom race

the rest was do-able

zico was pretty easy as i left this to the last challenge so i was pretty good before i even started it plus i had access to the videos of how to do it.

zeus wasnt to hard cos i left that till second from last challnge and got top tips off of problems solver on how to do it.plus syncopia was invented by the time I went for zeus so i had it easy.

i think i took 2 months ..maybe 3 months to get platinmum

with plenty of TT SL and phantom online inbetween.

what i am saying is it takes time to learn game and playing mostly in phantom get you to be skillful and gives you skills to beat the game.

a venom pilot has more trouble playing phantom than a phantom pilot playing venom. Thats not saying venom players are poor its that a venom pilot has to deal with super speed the are not used too a phantom player needs only to learn the fine details of the track as crashing or losing your line simply wont happen at that speed.

[ProblemSolver]

@YoshiXL: Once you have mastered most of the useful techniques scattered all
over here, you might be able to beat the AI by about 5 seconds on each track.
You can do it. :+

[Task]

I think the problem is that i oversteer... but i dont know how to really fix this right now.
I know how to fix that one.

Change ship.

Really, it's easier to find a ship that turns the way you expect it to than to change the way you steer AG craft around the track.

I always thought that WOXL was crazy, because it listed Feisar as the "easy" ship, and Qirex as the "expert" ship. I couldn't win a single race in the Feisar, and I almost couldn't lose in the Qirex.

Fly the ship that fits your playstyle best.

Or, put more succinctly, always fly whatever you can go fastest in. 8 )

[Temet]

Guys, you can't imagine how angry I'm right now!
I just tried to get the last gold medal is missing for me in campaign : the last tournament (in elite, of course).
I spent at least 20 tries just on the first frakking race, this easy and stupid race that is Vineta K! They hit me each single time, I've never been so closed to throw a pad in a screen in my life!
I had to stop before becoming litteraly crazy.

I think I won't play this game ever again when I will get platinum :evil


EDIT : well, after a break to calm down... I can't explain why/how but I won the tournament on first attempt with Harimau o_O'.
Just "Arcade Perfect" trophy and Platinum is mine!