WipEout HD Patch 2.10 Incoming

[qirex]

huh no thread about it yet?



Hello from Studio Liverpool…

We wanted to touch base with you all to share some information about the impending release of the 2.10 update for Wipeout HD / Fury that’s coming soon

The 2.10 Update makes some small improvements to front-end functionality and addresses some minor issues with the audio. In addition, small issues that could affect gameplay or scores in the Eliminator and Detonator game modes have also been corrected.

Changes have also been made so that any adverts shown during loading screens will not adversely affect the loading times of the title. As many of you know, the functionality to display adverts during loading screens was first introduced in the 2.0 Update and originally didn’t function as intended, leading to extended loading times in some areas of the game.

This issue has now been resolved and we understand that a new advertising campaign in Wipeout HD is expected to launch across a number of European territories soon (no word yet on what is happening in North America). In the meantime, a range of PlayStation-specific ads will be making an appearance in the coming days.

Wipeout and in-game advertising and sponsorship have gone hand-in-hand since 1996, when a now famous energy drink appeared in the seminal Wipeout 2097 and over the years many brands and products have been associated with the series.

It is our hope that by adopting this approach to dynamic advertising, it will be possible to create new associations in a unique way. We have therefore focussed on ensuring that the advertising is embedded as sympathetically to the overall experience as possible.

Finally, we’d like to remind everyone who hasn’t experienced the awesome adrenaline-rush that is Wipeout HD Fury, that the game is now also available on BluRay across Europe and that a Wipeout HD + Fury Expansion bundle is available to download from the PlayStation Store.


from blog.eu.playstation.com (http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2009/10/28/wipeout-hd-patch-2-10-incoming/)

uh loading screen advertising is coming back. :(
but sounds like they fixed the menu music bug.

[KGB]

Cheers for this, I didn't realize there was a problem with the audio.

I can see this advertisement thing causing uproar here, haven't got a problem with it really, if it means we might get more DLC then that's great, if it's just for Sony to make money then shame on them.

[Golgofier]

I guess I could live with ads in WO as long as the products are WO-compatible and it's done in a tasteful manner. Done correctly, it could even be pretty... cool :|

[Sausehuhn]

As long as advertising fits the WO-Sponsor Logos and don't occur too often – no problem with it.

[Amorbis]

Good news if it improves the functionality of the game, but...

I can't say I'm happy about the adverts, especially when the game cost £18 with the Fury addition. I'll only let Studio Liverpool off if it means more WipEout in the future and it doesn't inflict my time with irrelevant insurance adverts, PS3 adverts would be OK. Although I'm not too keen on Sony's aggressive marketing on customers who have already paid for things, the XMB has the 'What's new' and the ticker which are quite annoying. I wouldn't mind 2097 style advertising where the advert (Red Bull in 2097's case) feels part of the game world.

That's enough ramblings for now.

[Sausehuhn]

Just had an advert in one of my loading screens.
It's sh1t.

The sound of breaking tires is just not fitting to a WipEout game.
Sound itself is annoying.
And I don't want any videos.
And if videos: Put in some 2D vector animation.
Put in 2D vectors anyway – the WOHD menu is so minimalistic (which equals fantastic) so why would I want to see some over-colored-shadow-glare-3D-logos all over the place?

Bäh.

[SaturnReturn]

What's this ticker people talk about? Pretty sure I don't have it.

[Sausehuhn]

Wäääh the ads annoy me. Every 5-10 loading times they show up.
Gran Turismo and Arctic Edge Videos … with loud sound of course.

[Darkdrium777]

Now I know what to NOT download.

Cheers. :+

[lunar]

I`d really like to hear a decent justification for making people watch additional adverts in a product they already paid for. There may be one, but I can`t see it in the blog post. Why are we being informed about improved advert functionality? We should care why? As customers the game functionality is what we care about, not Sony profits by additional advertising.

"Wipeout and in-game advertising and sponsorship have gone hand-in-hand since 1996" is just an appeal to history in the hope of getting some sympathy for advertising now. The cases are different. There is no argument there as to why additional adverts are desirable or justified now.

"it will be possible to create new associations in a unique way." I`m sure it will, but what`s in it for the consumer who has already paid for a product that did not include loading screen adverts?

If there`s something in it for the customer, which was argued with Pure`s Puma packs, then fine, but if it`s just a test of a way to make more money for Sony, and it`s the thin end of the wedge for this sort of thing happening a lot more then it`s not fine and we should resist an attempt to make us pay for games twice - once with our cash and once by watching the adverts.

[Task]

You know what I see when I read that statement?

An excellent argument AGAINST digital download games.

Annoying advertising wouldn't be a part of any game that you buy on solid media, who's gonna pay for that? When you don't own the game though, when it's a digital distribution updated/patched by the platform it's run on, they can get away with this kind of thing: modify the game after you've already bought it.

First time I've seen such conclusive evidence/proof that digitial download really has a serious downside.

Well, at least it's currently a choice about whether or not you're installing the update, right?

I hope so.

Not having a PS3 I don't yet have to worry about this kind of problem, first time I've been happy about that. 8 )

[mizunoori]

It seems my german partners got the adverts :mad:

How does the update behave?
Do you get asked if you want do download it?

[Connavar]

I have nothing against advertising, but as SaturnReturn said, it must fit the
game, and not be disturbing, then I'm all for it, if it helps the studio, which in
turn will consolidate a next Wipeout installment.

[billychanxtr33m]

as long as adverts=more content ill deal

[yeldar2097]

looks like they're onto a winner here, good idea :+ :)

....

*Cue stunned silence*

....

NOT


Hooray for in-game adverts and almost certainly even more bullshit and bugs than before -_-

P.S. Yes I am being a little extreme but I'm still pissed

[Darkdrium777]

I have one problem with this patch: it means SL spent all this time correctly implementing the advertising function instead of fixing bugs.
I mean, just look at the press release: 1 paragraph of this announcement is dedicated to the bugs they've fixed (which really consists of four minor things at best), and 4 paragraphs to the return of ingame advertising.
Betrayed by your own press release.

[QjonPL]

Well, at least it's currently a choice about whether or not you're installing the update, right?
No.
On PS3, if you have a console logged into PlayStation Network, updates are checked and installed automatically when you turn the game on. You can NOT install the update, but if so, you won't be able to play the game online, so it's useless...

Damn you Sony, you're turning into Capcom - money-leecher :mad:
They can put them into a trial version if they want - because it's free, but I paid for a full game, Sony got my money, so why the heck they're STEALING even more?

[Connavar]

You paid for a full game, how much? Like 20 euros? It's easily worth 60 or more.
Not that I'm defending them, just pointing out you paid 1/3 of the price of what
it's really worth, IMO.

[SaturnReturn]

I have nothing against advertising, but as SaturnReturn said, it must fit the
game, and not be disturbing, then I'm all for it, if it helps the studio, which in
turn will consolidate a next Wipeout installment.

I agree with this opinion of mine that I never expressed. :P Don't worry Connavar, I confused 'Sausehuhn' with my own name..."WTF? I don't remember typing that".

My own opinion is that it kinda sucks. But if it means more WipEout in the future then OK. At the same time though, they shouldn't underprice the game and then throw the ads in later to try and make up some revenue. If it all goes to Sony then it will suck more. But I do get free access to PSN, so maybe I can deal with it. Although, if they're full video ads with audio etc, then I'm sure I'll find it very annoying. And I do agree with Darkdrium, more focus should be given on addressing bugs, particularly ones that were there to start with.

In short - yer, but no, but yer, but no, but....ugh ads! :(

[MetaKraken]

if they're going to add up in-game ads that involves State Farm again, then I'm not sure what kind of sick ideas they have up in their sleeves. If they're going to add in-game ads that involoves FX racing teams, then I'm ok with it.

Wipeout is supposed to be fictional. There's not a single futuristic Burger King around Vineta K, or even a Toys R' us store around Metropia.

[Sausehuhn]

If I'm not totally wrong, the game told me to download the patch if I want to start the game. Not 100% sure, though.
I have nothing agains some fitting adverts, really, but, seriously, what they do now is just f***ing annoying. It destroys the flow of the game for me.

Show some logos, why not, in duo-color or something, but I don't want a whole animated video advertisement or some misplayed graphics while playing. It sucks.

[Syntek]

Wipeout is supposed to be fictional. There's not a single futuristic Burger King around Vineta K, or even a Toys R' us store around Metropia.

Would make more sense if you saw a floating Burger king Advert with flying cars going through them though.

[lunar]

I mean, just look at the press release: 1 paragraph of this announcement is dedicated to the bugs they've fixed (which really consists of four minor things at best), and 4 paragraphs to the return of ingame advertising.
Betrayed by your own press release.

I think you hit on what probably annoys me most about that blog post. It`s the corporate mentality revealed in what they choose to talk about, and the assumption that we really want to know about advert functionality more than the game functionality. A PS blog post bringing you information about new in game advertising, presented as good news, is a seriously weird thing. It wouldn`t surprise me at all if the adverts feature loud sound and are totally in your face. I don`t think the minds behind these campaigns really grasp subtleties. You have to wonder if the person or persons who wrote that post understand anything about their customers or just live and work in some corporate ivory tower assuming the rest of the world couldn`t possibly have different priorities. Hey, giving us Motorstorm and GT adverts is really about giving us "choice", isn`t it? :rolleyes:

But that`s not really the point, KGB hit the nail on the head really:


if it means we might get more DLC then that's great, if it's just for Sony to make money then shame on them.

[Constrictor]

I was urged to install the 2.10 'patch' - stunned when I saw that because I didn't knew it was coming - when I started the game some hours ago.

@Sausehuhn: yep, no start w/o upgrade if you are psn online

@SL: Big fail guys. In fact, WipEout does suffer a decreasing (online) community; starting some months ago. With this great fix *sic* you are certainly speeding things up - to the negative. Go and die from the few extra $$$ made of this ad upgrade. More sooner than later there is nobody left watching this ad-crap as nobody plays the game anymore. Hopefully this is a hit based revenue model. So enjoy those few extra bucks for the time it will last and have a beer *cheers* and good bye - at least until I'm more relaxed.

I'm so, SO, p*ssed off.

[Sausehuhn]

It wouldn`t surprise me at all if the adverts feature loud sound and are totally in your face.

They are loud sound and they are totally in your face.

[yeldar2097]

Maybe I (and my dog) will take a :bomb in a :paperbag and set it alight then stick it on their doorstep - it's a classic :g

:sadface comme ca --> :(

[KGB]

Not gonna be able to see these delights until tomorrow as I had to move the ps3 into my kids bedroom, what are they advertising, has it affected the load times?

[Zitrax]

What if every cent returned from the commercials go directly to hire new bug-fixing developers :)

[0L4F]

Wow, this sounds bad...
Haven't fired up WipEout yet, but I'm afraid next time I'm loading a track, I'll have a loud Gran Turismo ad pumping on my headphones.

[Dark_Phantom_89]

Oh god, please don't turn this fantastic game into an ad-fest, SL. It would totally cheapen and ruin it in my opinion.

I also haven't fired it up yet, maybe it's not as bad as I think it is?

[ProblemSolver]

... if it means we might get more DLC then that's great, if it's just for Sony to make money then shame on them.


What if every cent returned from the commercials go directly to hire new bug-fixing developers :)


Guys,

do

not

believe

that

the

ads

do

help

WipEout!


If you have to base content creation on getting paid by ads, then you're
already on the way down! So either the game can stand on itself or we are
lost. The ads are there to make money. It's as simple as that.

And I'm 100% sure that some of the native creators of the game are also not
pleased about implementing ads in the game (in the way it's done here). But
that's the price to pay having sold WipEout to Sony -- to see how the game
gets trashed over time and how it's used as a vehicle to spoil the public. Did
anyone remember that guy from SL saying; "WipEout is a showcase title for
the PSN."? Now you know.
Well, it's known that SL has develop a lot of technology for the PSN. And I
guess that the infrastructure for the ads were part of the plan right from the
start (from Sony). So I'm pretty sure that we will see this technology in other
PSN games quite soon.

It hurts so much to see that such a brilliant game like WipEout gets trashed
by common bullsh!t. Unbelievable....

[Darkdrium777]

Wipeout and in-game advertising and sponsorship have gone hand-in-hand since 1996, when a now famous energy drink appeared in the seminal Wipeout 2097 and over the years many brands and products have been associated with the series.Bullshit

Let me ask you four questions.

1. Were any of these in-game advertising campaigns added in after people had already purchased the game?
2. Were any of these campaigns featuring loud, unpleasant sound and annoying videos?
3. Were any of these campaigns clashing with the visual art style the game is so famous for?
4. Were any of these campaigns detrimental to the continual improvement of the game and the franchise in general?

Here are my answers:
1. No
2. No
3. No
4. NO

You have proven by actually going through with this that you haven't a single care in the world for what the actual quality of the game is.
1. You don't care about pissing off loyal customers and fans by integrating an annoying mechanic that the end user cannot get rid of into the game AFTER it has been purchased by this user.
2. You don't care about this feature being absolutely annoying and playing absolutely horribly loud and disagreeable sounds.
3. You don't care if these ads degrade the look and style of the game. It's been proven with the State Farm ads featuring annoying beatbox/electro music, and not fitting the graphical style of the loading screen it's integrated into.
4. This is probably the worst: you don't care about fixing bugs and improving the game for everyone who bought it, and instead shove advertising into their faces. There are dozens of bugs still unfixed, but instead of working on those and providing quality content to the customer, you go ahead and do what you did.

Shame on you.

http://i.imagehost.org/0310/SonIAmDissapoint_Macro.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0370/Soniamdissapointreal)

[kaori]

Hey Darkdrium, where have you this photo of my mate leungbok ?

[stever]

It could just be coincidence but since today's patch I've had:

- the person in the race who happened to get adverts is always the one that takes longest to load into the race

- a full game and machine crash that happened for 5 of 6 players in a zb race

- music (menu and in game) disappearing for 3 races of a tournament then suddenly coming back after a glitch at the start of a race

- increased stuttering and lag in game

None of which have ever been problems for me before. Anybody else found similar since the patch or is it just coincidence?

[Rapier Racer]

Do they appear when you play offline?

[yeldar2097]

I'm also annoyed that since I have not downloaded the patch I now cannot stay signed in on PSN if I boot up Wipe-ingameadvertising-out (please? ;) )...

fail

[SaturnReturn]

Just had my first advert. It definitely takes longer. It was only a three player game and took longer to load than a normal 8 player game. It was the same players as I was playing with just last night, when the games were loading almost instantly with 4 of us in. Now the load times last just long enough to display the full advert. Funny that. Not happy!

[KGB]

If you have to base content creation on getting paid by ads, then you're
already on the way down! So either the game can stand on itself or we are
lost. The ads are there to make money. It's as simple as that.



Not sure if I agree with this, were now in the first stages of gaming where this is even possible, maybe this will become the norm in years to come, if sponsorship is what it takes to keep this game going then so be it.

I was outraged when they started sponsoring Coronation Street but I learned to live with it :D. Just the way the world turns these days.

[Koleax]

Well, I already felt punched in the gut, when they decided to "update" the game with fewer FPS. Now I wonder if they're going to kick me in the balls.

It's weird because I rather like ads in racing games. The teams need sponsors to survive. It looks more natural, alive and authentic, especially on metropolitan tracks. However, I expect advertisers would want their ads viewed at the best possible 60 FPS without frame drops. Too bad. I actually feel sorry for the advertisers.

[SonicChaos]

I haven't had an advert yet out of 6-7 races so I don't know what's going on with that, but if that's what it takes to keep a game going, I'm all for it.

[Kyonshi]

I completely disagree with this feature, and i will right-away add my complaint with those of all other posters here.

First of all, Darkdrium777 couldn't have resumed it all better.

Also, in-game advertising in WipEout XL/2097 was INTEGRATED to game's concept without being disturbing, aggressive and annoying. Now with this 2.10 update, it's a complete another story.

I don't wanna watch TV ads when i play a game. I don't wanna hear about in-coming games with loud, obnoxious sound effects unrelated to WipEout. There's already constant and intense advertising in the XMB and PStore, i don't really see here the relevance of adding MORE ads in-game.

Plus, like its already mentioned, there's a lot of work to do to fix WipEout numerous problems. But instead of concentrating ALL the efforts of fixing them in the first place, you people at SL conjugates some ressources to find a way that ads won't affect loading times... WHAT THE **** IS GOING ON HERE?!?:brickwall

-The game still suffers from some stuttering and frame-rate drops.
-The gameplay still suffers from bad collision effects that compromise the fun factor and racing experience.
-The game still suffers from random freezing and crashing - hell, it even happened to me will i was in the GRID SCREEN.
-The freaking voice-chat feature is still inoperative after more than 1 year of existence, for God's sake and all that is holy!!!

And now what, its time to adequately program well-working IN-GAME ADS?!? Jesus guys...

Studio Liverpool, you guys just bifurcated on a very hazardous path. From now on, to anyone asking me how is WipEout HD/Fury, it'll be my pleasure to warn them about the forced and annoying ads featured within the game. Rest assured that when some people will know about that, their motivation toward buying the game will be negatively affected as much as my devotion and appreciation of your work is abruptly experiencing the same...

I really sincerely hope you guys step back from taking this lame decision and remove anything related to that from the great game you brought to life.

Daniel Rondeau, Montréal, Canada

[yeldar2097]

I'd have no problem if it were some nicely designed, albeit subtle billboards/hover thingamys here and there. something tasteful like. Sadly from what I've read on here as soon as I download the patch I will no doubt spontaneously vom all over myself and my lovely carpet...as well as wanting to break something...and cry about the fact that my beloved game is getting worse, not better (that's the way most patches tend to work, in case you hadn't noticed, SL), much like the PS3 SKU's (imho). Maybe Sony are loosing the plot? I'll ask my friend (fantmusik) about it, not that it'll help.

Some more ramblings:
At least with adverts on TV you can change the channel/adjust the volume. Unless you have a RAPID TV and the reflexes of a fly on uppers, I'm guessing this won't be possible...I may end up being forced to watch adverts for once :(

TV ads don't often delay the start of a programme that would otherwise have started on time...ok they might but i'm not sure.

The advert game that I play with my friends when i'm drunk might become a bit repetitive after a while (guess the brand as quickly as possible etc... : "SONY! I WIN" ..."SONY! I WIN AGAIN!" -_- )

Did they not get the hint last time around when the state-farm ads went down like a breeze-block-o-sh*t?

Lumps of dog :bomb in a bag --- 1
SL + Sony + WOHD --- <0 (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less)

WHAT'S HOT:Scantily-clad laydeez on beaches, Microsoft, This Legend -> 8)

WHAT'S NOT:WOHD, SL press releases, Sony, This complete and utter twat (I think he works for Sony) -> :cold

[Rapier Racer]

9 or so single player races later and an ad for Ghostbusters pops up.

I'm not saying I support these adverts the way they are currently presented but....

Resonate some understanding, Sony is going to put these adverts in the game one way or another so attack them, as in SCEE.

Some people seem to have their heads firmly lodged in their anus not realizing then, that Studio Liverpool DO NOT, pay attention to that part it is of vital importance here DO NOT have 100% control over the game once its been declared a finished product, do they have much control or a say in what goes down at all?

It's also just as narrow minded to crow on about them spending time on trying to make the ads fit in more and cause less annoyance (dunno if that's doable really) as if it was all their own idea, because of course there isn't anyone higher up here, no one to pull strings, give out orders that sort of thing, how silly of me to presume as such.

Lets all blame SL for everything, I've got some spare pitchforks here if anyone needs a lend, flaming torches too.


Cheers for this, I didn't realize there was a problem with the audio.

There seems to be some sort of problem on the Fury tracks, the echo sound effect for weapon impacts and such when you go through a tunnel seem to carry on when your not in one.

[lunar]

Fair point that SL might not be behind this. The blog post is from an SCEE guy, if you read it.

I think advertisers will want us to think that adverts are "what it takes" to keep games going. I think this is probably false and if we start to believe it we will pay the price. Gaming has always been a harsh business - if a game doesn`t make money by sales there`s no point it getting made. C`est la vie and it applies to wipeout too. Advertising can`t save something that can`t make money. In the end, if we let it, in game advertising will exist solely in order to make more money for game developers and publishers. The advertising will become more and more in your face because they will be able to get away with it. Subtle advertising in HD they might get away with, but I don`t think advertisers understand that less could be more for them, in terms of reaching people efficiently instead of pissing them off. If loading times really are longer for those getting the ads I will not be able to believe anyone could be thoughtless and daft enough to implement it. So people with less than lightspeed internet are to be punished for that - nice!!

This is a big if, but IF wipeout hd was the most well-maintained, bug-free game, updated and maintained to the highest standards for offline and online play, then maybe, just MAYBE I could think this advertising was justifiable to maintain that service. But making me watch advertising to play a game full of bugs and problems that never get fixed and which are pretty much ignored is beyond the pale. Yes, Wipeout HD is cheap to us, but to general gamers £18 is a pretty fair price to pay for what you get and isn`t so cheap that adverts are a fair thing to put up with.

[sonoflal]

At least its only the EU gamers who have to put up with the ads at the mo. The US players seem to be ad free.

I had ads 7 times tonight and culminated in a total lock up of my ps3 and it took 5 mins before it would turn back on. Never had a single problem till this patch came out. lots of players tonight reporting lots of stuttering during races and loss of music. seems to be the age old thing of fix one thing and something else breaks.

i hate the ads but now they`re there i will persevere if it continues to give us more actual game content.

[Rapier Racer]

The US Wipers had their own dose of this months ago, apparently it was worse than this increasing loading times by a ridiculous amount, ads were pulled due to outrage.

[yeldar2097]

........................................_______
What they have improved = √F**k all

[SaturnReturn]

They're definitely too loud - significantly above the normal game volume, which I have on default settings I believe.

[MetaKraken]

Yeah, ads are a no go for Wipeout HD (unless they're adding it for certain countries). Besides, Wipeout's fictional sceneries does'nt seem to relate to real-life ads.

[abukii]

At least theyre SONY related ads. Id much rather see an LBP ad than State Farm...so kudos for that. Besides, it helps animate the load screen a bit. You know, the whole 5 seconds...I dont think its that bad.

[DawnFireDragoon]

:eek wtf? they seriosuly brought this stuff back.

i'm amazed. seriously, amazed. thank god i got the blu-ray, offline play without updating for me.

Another brilliant move Sony.

This is just baffling, of all ps3 games, wipeout is one of the most solid in it's alternate worlds that you go off to, to play in and enjoy and they're chucking real world adverts into it...........again.

How can anyone justify altering something people already purchased, in the supposed safe knowledge, no morons were going to pull some sh*t like this!

it's a real shame.

[Kyonshi]

Abukii, it actually slows down the loading time uselessly and aggravates the performance of the game, as many players already reported. So yeah, there's something wrong with those 5 seconds.

[brummpahh]

Ohhh, m8's, i'm so p*ssed with these ads !!!

The only thing i can assure you SONY / SL:

i will refuse to buy a single one of the
advertised products. Go! bankrupt.

can someone check if it's legal to corrupt a
good i've bought long time ago ?

what if a car company came to your home to put stickers onto your car after sale ? at least they'd not be LOUD and ANNOYING.

[KIGO1987]

I go to sleep early last night, and i have to read through 6pages of thisshit.

Not a good way to start the day.

Time to start this download.

Might be ready by lunch time, pending on how retarded the connection is today.

Ill give you an update later on, on my opinion about this update.

[djKyoto]

Least I havn't updated yet. I'll just play offline if it asks me too.

Woo 777 posts.

[KIGO1987]

Did the update then, went in the game, haven't noticed any differences, but still the same crappy lag online, vista pads, marshmallow controls, you name it.

[blackwiggle]

There has always been an air of inevitability about advertising making a reappearance since the "State Farm" debacle the US guys had with the FURY DLC .
It was only technical problems that caused the initial ad's to be withdrawn, and only a matter of time before those technical problems were fixed and the ad's returned.

I suppose and hope the ad's will be region specific,seems rather pointless to have ad's for a product that is unavailable.
I've yet to install the update ,so I'm ad's free atm,but it would seem from what I have read that even if ad's have yet to appear on Australian based players consoles,the online game play will still suffer when playing people who do have the ad's appearing,as we will have to wait either in the lobby or on the starting grid while the ad's play through.

I sincerely doubt SL wanted this intrusion into wipeout,they are after all solely a game design company,not an advertising agency,this would be as much of a disappointment for them as it is for us,as members of SL have posted here previously,they play wipeout as well.

Anybody that is not blind can see the responsibility for this happening coming initially from SCEA and then thrusted into the lap of SCEE to implement as well.

I can't see it going away a second time,no matter how much we protest.
An end to an era of ad free gaming as we have known it.

[Koleax]

Wait, these are load screen ads? As in commercials? As in "stay tuned" and "don't touch that dial" and "now a word from our sponsor?" The press release referred to billboards.

So they play even when you're not online? Or just when you're in online races? If it were a means to continually fund the online service, maybe it wouldn't be so bad, since time viewing them would be proportional to time spent online, but it doesn't sound like that.

Clearly inferior to billboards on the tracks either way.

[blackwiggle]

I'm not sure.

I'm only going on information that has been previously posted in this thread by others that have the ad's appearing.
The previous "State Farm" ad's were of the loading variety,I know that much.

Here is a link to what was happening with the State Farm ad's pre technical fix ,you can see why all the complaints and why it was promptly disenabled.

http://fidgit.com/archives/2009/07/playing_wipeout_hd_online_stat.php

[Sausehuhn]

Yep, Koleax, they appear in loading screens. Also when playing offline. And they have exactly that "stay tuned"-character you're talking about. They look like TV ads. No wait. They are TV ads.

And as you can read in the blog post: The PlayStation specific advertising is just a try-out for other adverts to come.

By the way: they are especially annoying when you play with muted music. Cause you go from that more or less silent menu to the in-your-face-hey-I'm-loud-loading screens within one second.

[blackwiggle]

They would want to sort any change of level differences between the ad's and the actual game volume real quick.

Otherwise I can see a class action being taken against SONY for blown surround set up's /TV's etc.

I had my suspicions,I wondered why Colin Berry from SL had sheepishly visited the forum on the 28th [same day the blog went up],I suppose it was to see the reaction from forum members about the news.
Seems we are not quite as in touch as a group as we used to be regarding all things wipeout.

[KIGO1987]

If these in game adverts pay the bills for Studio Liverpool, i guess its doing it job then.

[karsten_beoulve]

This is a real shame. When i bought the game+fury there was NONE of This SH1t, and don't want it to be added.

Also, VIDEOS? are we joking? couldn't be a sliding strip during loading enough?

Let's come up with a letter/petition in wich we show our disappreciation on this ads, and start boycotting ALL THE ADS SUBJECTS.

It could mean 30000 less sale for the product publicized, and i guess any software house could feel such a loss.

[stever]

In game adverts can't be that good a revenue stream in a game that's been out as long as WipEout HD; as the number of players declines over time the adverts will be viewed by fewer people.

[novide]

The Ads destroys the wipeoutfeeling : (

[mizunoori]

The feeling you have bevor a online race with some very good players "I wonder who will win" is gone.

We can be angry all the time. But nothing will happen unless we do something. I´m not long enough here to know, does someone from Studio Liverpool reads in the Forum?
If not, we should prepare something for them. Have you ever done something like that bevor?

[mic-dk]

I thank The Gods that I live in country (or as they are labelled today: 'Market') small enough to ignored by Corporate Marketing.

Here's hoping to staying ignored!

[ProblemSolver]

Not sure if I agree with this, were now in the first stages of gaming where this is even possible, maybe this will become the norm in years to come, if sponsorship is what it takes to keep this game going then so
be it.
Initially it may help, but you will become dependent on the income from all
the ads such that you have to produce things to their likely, i.e. crap.
Another example is the following; once you have a good product, as an
independent developer studio, you may think that incoperating into a
bigger company will make your product much better, but history has proved
otherwise almost always.

I admire InsomniacGames who have resisted being taken over by Sony,
they don't need Sony's money, they can stand upon themself. And they
showed that producing high-profile games is possible even without being
part of Sony. Even further, they don't have to wear a muzzle on their face,
they have a public community, have podcasts, and even share technical
details with the public.

I don't blame SL (or Psygnosis) being part of Sony, but if the result is what
we can see now, then it becomes questionable. A game that has a long
history, that was build upon itself, is now abused to make local profit. The
ads might just be the beginning -- of the end -- of what we know as WipEout.


... thank god i got the blu-ray, offline play without updating for me. ...
I had the same thought.


... Anybody that is not blind can see the responsibility for this happening coming initially from SCEA and then thrusted into the lap of SCEE to implement as well. ...
I'm 100% sure of this. SL (all the artists, etc.) have created unique harmony
for WipEout HD which now becomes utterly destroyed by those ads.


Ads have drawn me away from TV long ago, and ads will draw me away from
gaming.

[amplificated]

There is no justification for adding commercials to a game that has already been payed for in full unless the game was becoming a free for download ad-supported game like the original Command & Conquer. Or that the dev./publisher is in financial hardship and want to milk some vital cash to stay operational, but that's just as unlikely as customers wanting obtrusive ads in their games.

I should expect WipEout is becoming completely free if there is any advertising of this nature in it.

And all previous buyers should be given a full refund or credit from the store, as there was no indication that ads were going to be integrated into the game until the 2.00 patch, and even then it wasn't an advertised upcoming feature when it went back down. Not many companies can get away with selling a product that is not what they advertised, I don't think Sony should be exempted.

If that's not the case, well, they can count me out of being on the PS boat. The XMB has become an ad infested, revenue raising, farcical attempt at creating an OS, and the fact that they need to negatively affect the actual games that are already being payed for up front, just to scrounge up some petty cash is warrant enough for skipping other Sony products on principle.

But Sony can't be that bad right..? I'm expecting my full refund soon, Sony. /s

I may just go and buy Uncharted 2 second hand.

p.s. way to scrounge up some petty cash by actually scrounging up universal negative customer feedback and press. Way2go.

[DawnFireDragoon]

i agree with those last two comments entirely problem solver.

and can tell you this, i will not support a product been altered in this way, one bit.

I understand what people are saying about Studio Liverpool probably not having much say in this, but they had to put the code in to make this possible and help them shorten the load time problem. They are somewhat responsible :( ...even if it is only slightly and with regret (love to hear their feelings on this, but i would hazard a guess that they are forbidden from the freedom of opinion on this subject)

i'd rather give SL money directly, if that's what they need, or pay slightly more for the initial product that have stuff like this happening.

i won't buy any future product relating to HD or any future wipeout which has anything as ridiculous as this implimented. And i do not say that lightly, i am a massive wipeout fan. massive. But when, even one of my most respected and enjoyed games pulls something like this, that's it.

i will continue to play HD offline to avoid these updates and enjoy the rest of the series, but if this is the future, i really don't want it.

[Connavar]

Hopefully the next update will patch (= remove) the ads :)

[ACE-FLO]

I recently got me a PS3slim. But I won't get Hd/Fury with all this advertising nonsense!

I work with advertising, and I'll be damned if I'm to enjoy my leisuretime by being force fed ads from the game I'm wanting to play!

So, a brand new unopened PS3 slim, for sale @ £180 no offers! I'm serious!

[Michelasso]

take the ads out of the fun!!!

[Colin Berry]

They would want to sort any change of level differences between the ad's and the actual game volume real quick.

Otherwise I can see a class action being taken against SONY for blown surround set up's /TV's etc.

I had my suspicions,I wondered why Colin Berry from SL had sheepishly visited the forum on the 28th [same day the blog went up],I suppose it was to see the reaction from forum members about the news.
Seems we are not quite as in touch as a group as we used to be regarding all things wipeout.


Allow me to make a few small points to help you out with your suspicions...

- If I wanted to check a reaction or read a thread, I can do so without logging on, I read the board every couple of days often without logging in, but the adverts dont concern me, I'm a games designer, not a marketeer...

Plus
- I havent been involved with Wipeout for about 15months.

However
- I do log in here to check my private messages, its how me and foxxy keep in touch sometimes and also its how I respond to people who send me questions now and again

Rest assured
- I dont do ANYTHING in my life sheepishly, I'm a kind of stick two fingers up what you see is what you get kind of person.

So, your 'suspicion' of me 'logging in sheepishly' needs revising.

I hope this clears any confusion.

[amplificated]

Allow me to make a few small points to help you out with your suspicions...
...
I'm a games designer, not a marketeer...
...
Rest assured - I dont do ANYTHING in my life sheepishly, I'm a kind of stick two fingers up what you see is what you get kind of person.

As someone who holds these values, can you express your opinion on the matter?

Despite not being involved with the project for a long time, I'd like to know what you have heard about the reasoning behind the move, if you're allowed to tell us.

[ProblemSolver]

As someone who holds these values, can you express your opinion on the matter? ...
I think he has already given the answer.


...
- If I wanted to check a reaction or read a thread, I can do so without logging on, I read the board every couple of days often without logging in, but the adverts dont concern me, I'm a games designer, not a marketeer...
That's what I thought as well.

In general, it's not good to talk about individuals form SL within this discussion
despite they're being part of that company. The scope for including ads is
much broader than we might think of.

[Colin Berry]

Personally ?
Adverts in general do not bother me, be it tv, or radio, or product placement in films

I know that adverts can be useful, just recently I've bought borderlands and started playing tribal wars, mainly due to adverts encouraging me to check them out (and in borderlands case reading about it on neogaf, but even then I'd forgotten about it until an advert on eurogamer made me go - thats the game!) and I am glad I did. Will I suddenly start drinking carlsberg and purchase a t-mobile phone ? no, no matter how many adverts either company does, but I cant blame them for trying. Am I saying all adverts are great, no, just that advertising as a concept isnt an evil as some like to think

Its the world I am used to and I can cope, I'd rather get worked up about a bad film or a bad game, than product placement in a good film, or adverts in a game I like.

For wipeout, an advert every X loads for 10-15secs during the loading process.... (I'm unsure on the specifics tbh). I havent loaded the game up since the update kicked in yesterday, but I cant see it bothering me, I'm usually using the loading time to drink tea or eat a minstrel anyway, so its not something that would get me mad.

On the flip side, an (un-named because that would not be fair) game I played about 3 weeks ago, that I checked out because I thought it might have some interesting features, annoyed me no end, it was utterly dire and had me cursing the developers and switching off after under 40mins, that, well that annoys me, bad bad bad games, indeed it would have benefitted from some adverts due the the tedious nature of the game itself.

Reading that back it sounds like I am dodging the question, and I dont mean to, I thought in the summer when the advert could cause longer loading on some levels that yes, it was a problem that needed rectifying, which I believe was recognised and is solved in this update and mentioned in the blog post mentioned earlier. The actual concept of an advert during loading - for me personally, it doesnt bother me and beyond that I cant add a great deal.

But thats just my personal view and I dont expect anyone else to necessarily agree with it, adverts just dont get me worked up

I'm not privvy to any information about why adverts were introduced etc, and if I was I couldnt and wouldnt be able to air things anyway. I can only give my personal opinion as above, and add that you dont need to be a genius to realise that Wipeout HD and Wipeout Fury both had a tonne of high quality content for the price they were released at.

[novide]

The Ads. sucks. I would pay 10 euros or so, if there is a patch, to stop it.

Now i play the singleplayer mode only, without connecting the PSN.

[karsten_beoulve]

I can mostly agree, colin.

But it hink that it's unhethical (sp?) to add "features" that make the game experience worst after selling the game. I guess we can agree on that right? I bought the game with good $$$ and i expect it to be as good as i payed it, not to get worst in time... That is unless i'm going to get something back :D

Also there's no "gain" to the users in exchange for longer loading times and advertisements seen...

i think that sony can meet with some problems with this behaviour of "adding unwanted features after selling".

just my 2 cents, colin.

[ProblemSolver]

@Colin: I think it's not about the ads per se, it's about how it's done. The
loading screen is somehow a preparation for the race that follows, and if one
plays against some tough players, then the in-your-face advert isn't of any
help. Quite the contrary is the case, one starts to hate what is advertised.


... and add that you dont need to be a genius to realise that Wipeout HD and Wipeout Fury both had a tonne of high quality content for the price they were released at.
But this cannot be an "excuse" for having ads now. The game could have
easily been sold for double its price.

[blackwiggle]

I wanted to reply to Colin's response,but unfortunately TASK deemed himself beyond reproach .
Otherwise deeming me unworthy of a response.[yet another point[s] reduction] I have NEVER had ANY POINT, had a reduction apart from one time when I put up a photo that was too large,and that was over two years ago since I became a member here in 2006.
Task .it seems,has taken a particular dislike to me.[Please explain in the forum,so all can see you reasoning]

The irony is that Colin was responding to my post.
I could of answered quite civilly,I didn't get the chance ,too busy trying to save myself from getting barred it would seem.

GO figure :eek

[Koleax]

@Colin, I'm a greedy American capitalist, so I might have even less a problem with ads than you do. SL has a responsibility to its advertisers to maintain the Wipeout brand as a vehicle for their content. You mentioned WHD Fury was sold at a price considerably less than its worth, which I completely agree, but that does not fix the problem. It worsens it.

When I first saw the price for WHD, I knew something was wrong. My business economics training told me that there would be problems for somebody. I worried about your company and the future of Wipeout.

I am guessing that the frame-dropping with Fury and general cheapening of the game's artistry is such an effect. I really would liked to have paid more to avoid this.

[blackwiggle]

Allow me to make a few small points to help you out with your suspicions...

- If I wanted to check a reaction or read a thread, I can do so without logging on, I read the board every couple of days often without logging in, but the adverts dont concern me, I'm a games designer, not a marketeer...

Plus
- I havent been involved with Wipeout for about 15months.

However
- I do log in here to check my private messages, its how me and foxxy keep in touch sometimes and also its how I respond to people who send me questions now and again

Rest assured
- I dont do ANYTHING in my life sheepishly, I'm a kind of stick two fingers up what you see is what you get kind of person.

So, your 'suspicion' of me 'logging in sheepishly' needs revising.

I hope this clears any confusion.

Well being a "Brum" I never expected you to do things sheepisly ,it just "Seemed" a stealth wise visit on your behalf, as NO info from our "Friends" at SL was even give "Head's Up" wise, prior to this shock "Upgrade".

No information leads to presumption.

My previous post was not meant as a personal attack on you.:eek

[Lance]

But the phrasing made it an accusation of negative character traits, and thAt is a personal attack.

But, back to the discussion of 2.10?

[AG-wolf]

If they're going to do advertisements, they should at least be somewhat applicable... With RedBull back in XL/2097, I never even knew it was a real product until it launched state-side some years later (I flipped the f*ck out when I saw it on a store shelf one day)... I had previously always thought it was just some kind of fake in-game advertising because of how absolutely seamlessly it was put in the game.

But it's true, even the original Wipeout had advertisements for other Psygnosis games- both WO1 and XL/2097 had the ads integrated (like someone else said), they felt natural, they were part of the atmosphere.

In pure, the Puma and Coke packs were nothing but blatand brand-plastering, there was nothing engaging about them. It actually annoys me when I'm playing the game and I see these company names all over the place... what on earth could Puma shoes and Coca-Cola EVER have to do with Wipeout, science-fiction future, or racing in general (aside from regular sponsorship like in present-day racing, but that's irrelevant).

I haven't seen the ads in WOHD since they didn't start them here in the US, but instead of just slapping some kind of food, insurance, etc etc ad on a loading screen, maybe they can get a few related products and do like billboards in certain courses. Make the ads streamlined, so they blend in instead of standing out like a sore thumb. I'd honestly like to see a return to some Red Bull connection :D
In Burnout Paradise, different advertisements crop up on the billboards.. Visio, Doritos, etc.. there were even signs for Obama when he was still in the presidential race :P But that was a game where you drive around a city, and cities naturally have billboards everywhere and stuff, so it wasn't odd or out of place and didn't detract at all.


I don't specifically mind advertisements, they've become a necessary evil since product corporations have so much money and they don't think twice about sharing if someone lets them slap their name somewhere. It's just annoying when the ads detract or interfere with an expected experience. I'll chime in with Koleax, I would honestly have been willing to pay more for WOHD, and I actually expected to. The game was 20 bucks and fury was an extra 10- that's ridiculous, I would have expected at least 25 or 30 for HD and 15 for the Fury pack. Maybe the price-points were when Sony was really hurting and self-doubtful of the success of the game/system since nobody was embracing it like the 360 or Wii...
I am guessing that the frame-dropping with Fury and general cheapening of the game's artistry is such an effect. I really would liked to have paid more to avoid this. This especially... I like Fury for the most part, but it doesn't feel like it really bolstered anything, rather it was just some "more stuff." It feels rotten to say it like that and almost malign all the hard work which was put into it, but it's just an opinion.

I'm not trying to start any kind of console war here, but this parallels one of the reasons I wouldn't mind paying for Gold Xbox Live if I wanted to play online. You pay for a service and it works. With PSN, different games have different servers, lag, dropped connections, and the experience and ease isn't even unified across all titles. With Gold Live, the cost represents a promise of service, with PSN you get what you pay for. If WOHD had been more expensive, maybe it would have given development a higher budget or more resources... but I don't know the politics involved with production and marketing and release deadlines and all that happy horsesh*t, so this is all just theoretical.

[blackwiggle]

Grammatical errors on my part might of lead to a heinous misinterpretation of the meaning of my previous post.

For that I have nothing but regret.

But it was read as was written,and replied to as such.

I cannot undo this misunderstanding until Mr Berry makes a reappearance and reads further posts of explanation.

[OBH]

The adverts dont bother me in the slightest.

However i struggle to see how thats all that was worked on. I havnt said one bad word about SL really, but whats been going on? have you guys lost so much money on wipeoutHD that introducing adverts for aditional revenue has been the only thing worth working on? :D

not having a go or anything, the game is hardly "broken", just find it a bit bewildering.

[JJPAP]

Unfortunately I haven´t seen any commercials yet. Maybe - as Mic said - because we´re such a small country. Don´t know.
But the little boy is running out of diapers, so if anyone sees a good offer while the game is loading, please send me a PM ...

[Colin Berry]

A brum ? ! PFFT !
I'm a scouser: From Liverpool, not birmingham :D

As I've said before I'm no longer working on Wipeout, as such its remiss of me to comment on things in the ways I did when I was working on it. Its why I never posted things about Fury prior to its release, it was not my place to do so.

The heads up for the patch came via the playstationblog, information at times has been posted up here, but also many of the people who posted on WOZone from the dev team have moved from wipeout onto other projects.
In short - when the guys like me and Egg who like to talk all day were on Wipeout, then more things were posted, simply because we like to talk :D

With regards the adverts, I was asked for my view which I gave, its just my view, not as someone from sony, but just as me - the adverts dont bother me. Others have differing views thats cool I can understand them but I dont necessarily agree with them just as they dont with me.
I dont know what else to say, so I'll leave it for others to debate I think, especially as its friday night weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

but I am not sheepish !
:P



and no worries blackwiggle

[blackwiggle]

AG WOLF has stated his position much the same as I feel about the situation we now find ourselves in.:+

Unless this topic takes a direction that I have not perceived there could not be much that could be added.

Lance & Task = sigh of relief

He don't half sound like a "brum" in wipeout making of ,doesn't he beryl :D

[OBH]

begs the question though -
if you guys have moved onto other projects, where does that leave wipeoutHD? What we have now; is this it?

[blackwiggle]

Colin has not been involved with wipeout since HD hit.

Worked his way up from "game tester" well that's what's on the credits of WO3 .
To overseer of HD,then he has moved on,,,to what,I don't know

[ProblemSolver]

... then he has moved on,,,to what,I don't know
To the next incarnation of Wipeout. @PS: Dream on boy. xD

[blackwiggle]

Respect!
You pull apart games.
Colin makes them and has been in the industry for years.

He also PLAYS games.:eek

[Coucouoeuf]

That's good news :
1/ Seems they continue to support the game (even if a lot of upgrades should been made for online gaming such as displaying ping for instance)
2/ Ads are not that long anymore so it doesnt lower the game experience.

[DrMannevond]

@Mic & JJPAP : I've seen the new ads here in Norway, so don't feel to safe:D
Also, just for fun, I sent a complaint about this to the nowegian consumer protection agency. This is deceptive marketing if you ask me. I paid money for an AD-FREE product. I expect it to stay that way, or at the very least - be notified in big blinking letters about the possibility that "This product may be degraded by annoying ads that ruin the feel of the game and destroy your speakers at our discretion. Yours truly - Sony".

[G-Hob]

I'm in the US, and I got an ad for a PixelJunk game today when I was loading a track. Unfortunately, the loading slowed to an absolute crawl when the ad finished. Each line of the last third of the progress bar took about 5 seconds to show up.

Hopefully it was just a one-off.

[SaturnReturn]

have you guys lost so much money on wipeoutHD that introducing adverts for aditional revenue has been the only thing worth working on? :D

They could have been working on other stuff at the same time couldn't they? Maybe this is just the thing that was completed first, because it was the simplest. Although it's a bit of a fail in terms of the information from Sony, as it does still affect load times. But anyway, even if it is the only thing they've been working on, then I'm sure there's plenty of other stuff still worthwhile, and that it's more likely that this took priority, for whatever reason.

As much as I hate the adverts in their current form, and as much as I think this game has been messed with a bit too much (not always with positive results), I do at least feel that the developers are passionate about improving the game and taking it forward, and that they think it worthwhile to support it. At least I hope so.

[TorquedSoul]

I'm having serious issues with ads.

I dont mind the advertising ... I do however dislike the amount of time it hangs after the ad has run. In some cases I am waiting for a minute.

[AmigoJack]

Hopefully the next update will patch (= remove) the ads :)And what are your dreams when you sleep? ;)
USA was the first test candidate, now it spreads over to most European parts. Chances for removing this are as high as peace and justice taking the power instead of war and money.


I work with advertising, and I'll be damned if I'm to enjoy my leisuretime by being force fed ads from the game I'm wanting to play!That's one of the best contras I've heard so far. I wonder if either supporters or users of advertizement realize that they can't only create markets but also destroy them, because they over-annoy potential customers. I for my part do also boycott advertizers - most effectively while browsing :P


I would pay 10 euros or so, if there is a patch, to stop it.That's how far we have come already :( Paying for not being penetrated by unwanted information. The sad part is: I guess i would also pay 10 euros. But this is also the wrong direction, says my mind...


In pure, the Puma and Coke packs were nothing but blatand brand-plastering, ... what on earth could Puma shoes and Coca-Cola EVER have to do with WipeoutYou might not want to hear that, but I think Puma fits very well in those tracks. Coca-Cola too. Interestingly enough, both are monochrome brands with even the same two colors. Both are somehow speedy and stylish, enjoying my eye because it worked with the game design. (This other advertizement on the one same track did NOT fit at all - and I already forgot the name - eat that advertizers!)


Unfortunately I haven´t seen any commercials yet. Maybe - as Mic said - because we´re such a small country.Lucky you - I thought the same when I first read about ads in USA. But now I'm also doomed :( Someone put up wipEout-ish graphics, but they contain Jpeg-artefacts. Nothing more to say...


Advertizement NEVER EVER worked on me - it always annoyed me. Why? It's horribly loud - on TV, on radio, on phone, on markets - and now in HD also. If it cannot be loud (because it is in a mag or somewhere else) it mostly destroys other things or even erases useful info beneath!
It is always cheap crap - it's never something useful. Stuff for the people, which isn't really needed and which breaks early. Or gets out of vogue. There are exception, but those surprisingly also advertize nearly never.
I don't ordered it and never said "Yes, give me more". And there is no way to turn it off. Day in day out I pass giant bills blocking me from being able to view the wonderful nature in its beauty. Everything they gain is my increasing wish of totally ruining the whole billboard!
They never have useful info. And if they're forced by law to include info, it's written way too small (TV). And there's always a nice or sexy smiling girl which should stimulate my instincts (for making me trust and believe this advertizer, I don't speak of reproduction instincts *g*).
Sony, if I consider to buy Ghostbusters or else it might have been in the past - but now I don't want to anymore :D
It's a total waste of money AND energy. So much problems on this planet could have been solved already if we wouldn't try to convince someone to buy something he initially never wanted. Why this doesn't work? Because the first person in return gets also advertizements from all the others... And I better not list what amounts of energy spam eats :( Not to speak from all the wood/paper wasted for the daily flood in my letterbox...
It's even lying quite often: "The best...", "...for your health...", "...better...". Most bizarre ones occur with politicians on it before elections :eek

One could argue: "By now all the WO-players are doing it for free, so if now there won't be so much players online because of the ads it's still better than not making money at all". That's even quite true. But this will have consequences which will last longer, as this isn't really a great magnet for (new) people who want to have a PS3. I could understand it very well if the fanbase will shrink. Sony seriously does not lose money in any way.

This is as naive as advertizements on DVDs, those who are not to be supposed to be skippable. Luckily enough some software players ignore these structure settings (and other tools even filter out strange law warnings).

My wish so far:
make the advertizements at least mutable. Please!!

Thanks for reading, whoever has influences on responsables.

[ProblemSolver]

They are not only lying, they are also cheating on people. Over here in
germany there is a company called Jamba that advertises after almost every
music clip ringtones and pictures (many stupid things) to little kids who
don't have any idea on how this world turns. They offer them all these things
for a low budget but one indirectly signs an expensive subscription for a
couple of months on following their offerings. The info about the subscription
is displayed way too small and can't be read in time. As a result many kids
become indebted out of nothing. I really hate those companies and those who
work for them to a degree that I would kill them in a world without laws.

Tonight I played some WipEout and had to watch all these stupid adverts again
and again. Each time an advert comes up it's like an inhibitor for me to enjoy
the game. Well done....

[SaturnReturn]

I had a tonne of adverts last night, but not a single one tonight. It's so peaceful.

[Kyonshi]

People who can understand french and/or read it, watch "99F" with French actor Jean Dujardin. You'll get a massive hint of how much bullsh1t is put into today's advertising, without even the slightest concern of the consumers well-being :D

Adapted from the eponymous novel.

[Vartazian]

Damn you Kyonshi and your... big.. words... :beer

[IH8YOU]

So, am I just unlucky here - or is this game hanging at the start of each race? Its 3 for 3 now - waiting 1+ minute for XXX player - before it starts.

Last time I played, I got randomly kicked due to "server did not respond" - and it happened only on the last lap of the race. Exactly the same thing happened to my friend across the pond, too. It's not the usual disconnected bit - it's just like someone yanked the ethernet cable out of PSN (but you don't get kicked from PSN)

Oh yeah, the ads are lovely, too. /rolleyes

[Koleax]

The game definitely hangs for almost a full minute after playing the PixelJunk ad in America, SonicChaos and I have both confirmed. So if you guys see "waiting for Koleax" for more than 10 seconds, you know what that means.

It doesn't hang for other ads, though, so I hope that problems like that will be fixed as new ads come in.

[IH8YOU]

So it's not me....

Well then, who wants to join me in Tekken 6?

[SaturnReturn]

I noticed that tonight. I think that was you in the game I was in at one point Koleax. I figured it was the ads based on earlier comments. There was another American player later on as well and it was exactly the same thing. Do Sony really believe that we'll read that ads don't affect loads times and just accept it, despite what we can see for ourselves? I really think this might kill the game altogether. It was already quiet online these days and I can only see it getting worse. :(

[IH8YOU]

About to start my last race... Once Cipher_73 gets done watching an ad, I take it.

[Vartazian]

Its still clear here in Canada. However I'm noticing at least 1 laggy racer per race that takes a good 30-45 seconds to catch up to the rest of us.

Kind of annoying, but livable.

[brainbeat]

http://community.eu.playstation.com/playstationeu/board/message?board.id=b_EN_G_Driving_wipeout&message.id=5622&jump=true

hi pls tell musterbuster scee community moderator your feedback on the ads, maybe theyll listen

[Koleax]

@SaturnReturns, what a tournament! I was the lowest level player at 33 and six were 50+. The ad delay was just adding insult to last place. ;)

It looks like a lot of high-level players are logging in to see the changes.

[JJPAP]

also, just for fun, i sent a complaint about this to the nowegian consumer protection agency.

:+ :p

[amplificated]

Thanks for the reply Colin.

I agree that it's usually easy to tune out the odd commercial on TV, and it can even be fun to check out the trailers before you see that feature at the movies, but I find that having loud, in-your-face commercials in places where you usually have none is unavoidably annoying.

I would have been willing to pay more on the spot when it came out, there's no doubt that WOHD is a great, highly polished game. However, that the game was as cheap as it happened to be is no excuse for using disingenuous business practices that only negatively affect the customer to make up for it.

Without going into detail where I'd only be highlighting common sense, I just have to say that there are only negatives on the customer side here; and it's really disappointing to have a game that I payed the asking price for given an update that came unannounced, unsung, and makes the experience only worse.

That Sony/SL think they're so big to fail to announce that they have a need - let alone an actual reason for pursuing ads of this nature in a game - and not even a new one but an older game getting a retrofit; is really, really, really poor form.

I hope someone still working on the project is reading the forums here also.

[Vartazian]

I dont know if anybody noticed but you can now change viewpoint Before the race starts... yayyyy!

[breadhead]

The adverts aren't quite as annoying as I had expected but still not great.

The thing that really annoys me about adverts is that you get the same ones over and over and over ad nauseum, and that's pretty much how I feel already after one night of them.

The really annoying thing so far is that it is clearly affecting peoples load times, last night I had a large percentage of races where people would take up to a minute to join the race. It would happen occasionally before but it is much worse now.

I had to laugh at the advert to buy a PS3, slightly redundant.

[lunar]

Adverts having a negative effect on gameplay in a product we already paid a good price for is absolutely unforgivable. It is just taking the piss. I think that traditionally people will accept online adverts if they are getting an otherwise paid service for free, but they won`t accept adverts being added to a product they already paid for and which they have previously not had adverts in. It just goes so far against what people will accept I cannot understand why anyone at Sony could think it is a good idea. They are out of touch with their audience, I think. They might have got away with a few subtle billboards on the race track. I think it is fair to ask how this relates to our consumer rights and terms of service, as some people have done.

It is just a very badly handled attempt to shoehorn adverts into a new part of the PSN but I think Sony will only have shot themselves in the foot over it. We should never ever accept this type of advert in a paid game or gaming will change negatively forever, as Task and PS have pointed out a lot earlier in the thread!

[Z_Zoquis]

I'm not crazy about the ads either - although I haven't gone online yet so I don't have the update.

However, in order for there to be ads, there has to be somebody with something to advertise who thinks this kind of ad is worthwhile right? Maybe the ads will simply gradually stop over time as it becomes apparent its not really worth it...frankly I can't see too many companys thinking this is a good way to advertise their products.

[brummpahh]

Anyway, i send a complaint to the german
"Verbraucherschutzzentrale", which takes
care of customers rights. Damaging a good
after sale maybe won't be legal...

If you have similar institutions in your country,
feel free to contact them.

[Rapier Racer]

Hmm ran a small test, loading Metropia took 14 seconds, loading Metropia with the Ghostbusters advert took 16.

[Dark_Phantom_89]

I hate the ad's. I didn't buy Wipeout HD to watch advertisements on my loading screens.

Fair enough, SL might not be behind it, but still, my opinion of this game has just dropped.

[BARTgai]

Ads have pretty much ruined the game for me, each race takes 2-3 mins to load now. Sometimes it's even longer. :mad:

[Jguesty94]

I was on the Official PS Community and read the thread there before this one, and it appears some people are having problems with corrupted save files.


Having downloaded and installed the update (40gb, fury installed, both usb ports in use), the game starts I'm being asked if I'm new to Wipeout and if I need to have pilot assist on by default. I'm also asked if I accept the terms and conditions.

I began to think something a bit strange was happening and then when I went into campaign, all of the medals I've won over the last year have disappeared as have the ships I've won.

I quit the game, go to saved game data and discover that the data is corrupted.

also,
My save file was corrupt, good thing I had a copy of it

[DrMannevond]

:+ :p

Hehe, thanks. I'm not holding out much hope, but then again, these guys did try their best to rip Apple a new one over their DRM, so they're not afraid of big business at least.

[G-Hob]

Ads have pretty much ruined the game for me, each race takes 2-3 mins to load now. Sometimes it's even longer. :mad:

I only get the ads before certain races, but when I do get them it takes 2-3 minutes to load instead of 15 seconds.

Pretty ridiculous.

[Connavar]

Am I the only one not bothered at all by the ads? Or I'm missing something?
I see ads all the time but they're completely silent and very short, loading times
are the same as before... maybe because I'm in Belgium? No idea.

[Rezatron]

I haven't had a freeze during an online race under 2.10 yet :+ It was a problem before. Haven't seen any ads either :bat and hopefully it'll stay that way.

[Kyonshi]

Didn't logged on WipEout online since a full week because of this ads issue.

I found out that it's actually growing on me. Saddly, i'm being repulsed to play WipEout now. I don't even have to fight the urge to get my fix. The only thing that'll make me come out of my hiatus is WWC sessions with my fellow team mates. Otherwise, i don't intend to go online and have to go through the frustration of being forced to see those ****ing ads aggravating my favorite racing game.

[Koleax]

Maybe Sony could release a DLC that will remove the ads?

I know, I realize how twisted that sounds. No doubt there is some legally crafted window in the terms of service agreement that would allow this, but it still feels like having someone break your legs and then give you the medical bill.

Regardless, I wonder what it'd be worth to remove ads permanently. Between $10 and $20?

[Kyonshi]

Come on Koleax, that's a silly idea, no offense :)

I already paid 30 BUCKS for a game ads-free. That's fair enough and it represents a sh1tload of revenues for Sony, even at that price, considering the huge amount of people who bought it. I wouldn't pay even half of a penny to get rid of them.

If any, Sony has to pull them out FOR FREE for that matter, period.

[Koleax]

None taken! It's worse than silly, but I was an econ major and these intangible contractually created products fascinate me.

[mic-dk]

I see ads all the time but they're completely silent and very short, loading times are the same as before... maybe because I'm in Belgium? No idea.

Well, I now get the same, silent ones. Maybe we get the Small Country Package :)

I still dislike them and they usually do affect my loadtime by ~5 seconds, but if this is as bad as it gets I guess I'm lucky.

[yeldar2097]

If I'm completely honest with myself I reckon I'd probably drop £1.99 or so not to get ads.
I still haven't downloaded the patch and I don't intend to.
Problem is, I REALLY want to be able to play WO and stay signed in on PSN (and play online with you guys :D)...
:dizzy

[Constrictor]

On Saturday and Sunday I was online multiple short times for up to 10 races.

I got these nasty ads every 3 to 4 stints. Most of the time the Ghostbuster and GT PSP ads (w/ sound).

On Sunday night during Connavars hosted races (I joind for ~10) I didn't got a single ad. Did they turn it off?

btw, is anyone able to analyze network traffic and test if it is possible to block a certain IP range where the ads are originating? Don't know if this reflects the architecture of the ad infiltration, but maybe it's worth a try.

[ProblemSolver]

Adverts having a negative effect on gameplay in a product we already paid a good price for is absolutely unforgivable. It is just taking the piss. I think that traditionally people will accept online adverts if they are getting an otherwise paid service for free, but they won`t accept adverts being added to a product they already paid for and which they have previously not had adverts in. ...
And I don't think it's even legal the way they did it, at least not over here
in Germany.

Let's see what comes out of brummpahh's request;

Anyway, i send a complaint to the german
"Verbraucherschutzzentrale", which takes
care of customers rights. Damaging a good
after sale maybe won't be legal...

So if the Verbraucherschutzzentrale says this isn't legal one can take action
against Sony and / or STUDIO Liverpool.

I already thought about on how to circumvent the ads. It's clear that they do
depend on your IP address, since every region gets slightly different ads and
some others don't get any at all. Well, I've come to known about how the crap
works; within WipEout HD there is a module programmed by a so-called ad-company
that wants to spread the crap all over the place to everyone that signs a
contract with them -- SCEA, SCEE, and some others like EA, etc. did. The module
connects to an ad-server and opens up a port for communication to download the
ads onto your PS3. It should be possible to either block the given IP:port
altogether or redirect the request to something useless using your router. The
module within WipEout HD will just recognize that there isn't any response and
proceed as usual. That should solve the problem.

I think a batch of ads are downloaded one at time until the next is due for
release. Hence, it might be possible that ads are displayed despite having
closed the given ports. In this case you have to delete WipEout from your
PS3, download it again and prevent the game from connection to the ad-server.

[ACE-FLO]

Would be nice if the price of hd/fury were subsidized by the paid for advertising - the game would be a free download - meaning more wipeout pilots, and a larger target audience for the advert sponsors! Everyone happy = win/win!

Just a thought! :)

As an afterthought, those who paid for the titles could get a credit note code to spend at the PSN store or something...

... this idea, if implemented by Sony, could potentially see the PS3 outsell other consoles... Free games FTW!

... well I can hope! :D

[Rapier Racer]

I bet there's something in the Wipeout HD or Fury T&C that allows Sony to put them in, something to the tune of "We may alter this software...." blah blah blah the only thing is I can't find specific T&Cs for HD where are they? If you press triangle when you have the game highlighted on the XMB it claims they are in the manual, they are not, unless I need an eye test.

[Lance]

There is a sort of parallel here with how Sony handles the bundled software on their Vaio computers; they have put in place a business program that 'allows' the buyers of the computer to pay an extra 50$US to nOt include the bundled software, which by default adds more than one minute of startup time because in its initial state bundled ware automatically starts, takes up RAM whether you use or want it or not. Computer makers in general add bundles which they are paid for; the loss of the bundles income would be paid for directly by the consumer. Presumably the computer selling price is lower with bundles; the nice part about it being that the programs can be kept from starting and even removed. If you know what's happening and how to fix it. BUT on the game commercials, you don't get that option. Not good for us. Negative feedback to Sony and reduced sales are about the only thing that will affect this.

[OBH]

Earlier i said i was fine with the ads, then i started thinking, I can totally understand advertisement if the games free, however ive already paid my money for wipeout.

still dont see the purpose or reasoning behind them.

[ACE-FLO]

Yeah, I see your point, and do feel it's a bit of a 'cloak and dagger' approach by Sony to allow this. However, regarding it's legality issue, I have a hard time believing Sony wouldnt have done their research to cover their own hides.

I don't think it is unreasonable for Sony to offer wipers some sort of credit to compensate for their questionable approach and result of forcing wipers to watch advertising between load times... Will they though? :D

And though an annoyance, it could be deemed a clever stroke of marketing genius by Sony to make advertising subsidized games totally free to download. With the option of actually paying for the game (full R.R.P) for not having the adverts... how unreasonable is that?

[OBH]

If they hadn't released it on PSN first, released it on blue ray to the shops instead and made the 45 quid they could have on each sale, they'd have never introduced adverts.

[Amorbis]

Based on what you've said ProblemSolver, would it not be possible to use the PS3's/a router's proxy server function to go through a server in an ad-free country? The idea of blocking the advert server's address seems better though. I'd only go about blocking them if they start freezing my PS3 or slowing it down, I couldn't stand having to put up with a faulty product.

[INFINITY_1]

I am really pissed off.:bomb
Advertising in a game that I bought over a year ago without any advertising.
This really is a nerve. They should have made a declaration to all the choice whether one wants to accept advertising in the game or not.
The question asked was, however not before.
I find it to be used no matter what the revenue of advertising, the game with the expansion Fury was not really free.
I hope that Sony will reconsider the whole.
This will probably never happen.:(

INFINITY_1

[Constrictor]

:sonar Argh! Localized Ads incoming.

After multiple Ghostbusters, PSP, GT trash today I got

'The Ultimate Rocky Collection'

Rocky as in Rocky Balboa, the Italian Stallion boxing flics now on BluRay WTF! In 2097 (+/-) they are still interested in Rocky. How lame is this :blarg

It's time to start the 'ultimate WOHD ads from all over the world' thread

[mizunoori]

C4U, are they mute? (Is the spelling correct? lol i mean without noise haha)

Still haven´t downloaded the patch. It´s hard because i want to play online :mad:

[QjonPL]

Nah, they're LOUD :mad:

[lunar]

This is disgusting, frankly. How is Rocky "sympathetic" to the Wipeout experience? This is how to show zero respect for your customers. If Sony had any respect for us we would be allowed to opt out of adverts by switching them off, particularly as they are at best a very shady and greedy add on to the game, even if legal.

I know we have all assumed that Sony must have covered their backs with Terms and Conditions on this, but can someone point to where they did this? Where are these covering clauses that mean we have no redress? As far as I am concerned I made a one-time transaction with HD and Fury to buy those products. Me watching advertisements has a value, therefore now Sony are adding to the transaction in a way I could not have expected. They are effectively asking me to pay more than the original price and adding to the transaction. How can they do this? Can I regard it as a broken contract?

They may exist, but exactly where are the terms and conditions that allow this advertising to take place and which allow the game to be altered in this way.

[DrMannevond]

@lunar : Yeah. If anyone can actually find the full text of the user agreement I would very much like to know where, since it is a legal requirement in Norway that it be easily accessible at all times.

Apart from that, looks like they're just getting started :
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/2602444/

(Double Fusion was the company behind the last round of ads in HD.)

And to cover my ass topic-wise - I hate the ads and I've had one crash since the update.:)

[mdhay]

Is this it? (http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/corporate/eula)

[yeldar2097]

Well I finally caved and downloaded the update...oh god how I wish I hadn't :(

I thought there was meant to be more than 1 advert? All I get is some Rocky collection bunter.
Actually once I got one advertising PS3 which I found hilarious seeing as they must know I already have one, especially because they're shafting us with said advert on a PS3...
Loading times are atrocious and I'm also getting way more micro-freezes than before, and some added FPS issues -_-

Not impressed :(

[mizunoori]

It seems this is it. But how are we supposed to understand that. We need a Lawyer.

I guess I´m ready to stop playing Wipeout for a while. Until this sh1t has been removed from this great game.

[lunar]

Is this it? (http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/corporate/eula)

Well found, that might be it, but how do I know this relates to Wipeout HD when I buy it? I went through the process of buying HD, short of actually confirming with the last press of x, and didn`t see anything linking me to terms and conditions that would apply to Wipeout HD.

I`m still not sure there is anything covering their backsides in law, they may just be relying on the fact that no-one will take this to a court, which they won`t. Even if Sony are covered in law, their slap in the face to their customers tells its own story. We know we are right. This hasn`t caused so much outrage for no reason, and we can vote with our wallets and I won`t be pressing that last x to anything on the PSN or any product advertised in HD while these adverts exist.



Actually once I got one advertising PS3 which I found hilarious seeing as they must know I already have one, especially because they're shafting us with said advert on a PS3...


Unbelievable.... that one almost blew my Ironometer.:D

[yeldar2097]

Glad someone else got that Lunar ;)

Ad-snippet: "The game is only the beginning"

Does that mean we're going to get ads in XMB now too? :bomb

:g

[DawnFireDragoon]

I know what everyone should do. it may be hard for some and i expect many to disagree....but:

Don't play online, delete the update, or even wipeout hd altogether. you can always download it again later...once it's fixed, or if you can't take it anymore.

find something else to play. This is the only language they will understand. If they see this reaction from the core fanbase, they may act and do the right thing.

it's sad, but it's quite clear people play games to leave the real world and be imersed in another world and gaming experience, for the joy of entering another world or excapsm from this one. This is taking a lot of that feeling away.

[Kyonshi]

@DawnFireDragoon

Totally agree with you, dude! There should be a general consensus from the vast majority of players, new or veteran, about boycotting WipEout online to stir up the butts of Sony's officials. Personally, i didnt played online since a full-week. Many of my friends on the tracks can acknowledge this: W5LX, Boo4ever, Vart, TCK, CoatlKetzal, DeepMix, etc.

But unfortunately, the chances of slightly attracting their attention to this issue is pretty null. Sony is greedy, nothing new about that. Just like Micro$oft and Capcom. They give you the impression they care about your satisfaction as being a customer of their products, but its bull****. There's a lot of examples, but the recent ads in WO issue is the best demonstration of my statement. No consultation EVER about such a thing, even after we PAID, and gladly did, for the great game WipEout HD/Fury is. They forced that upon us.

I can bet you my next paycheck that if they ever retaliate to such opposition, they will sustain their statements by the fact that we don't pay for online play, that revenues must come from somewhere, and that since a some players dont seem to be bothered by the ads and fail to see that implementing advertising in an already paid product is a direct outrage and a disrespectful slur to consumer's consideration and rights, they will say that it doesn't seem to be such a big problem since people continue to play it and buy it.

Still, i salute your dedication to the rightful principles and values you profess. :):+

[DrMannevond]

mdhay : I think that's their eula for their PC software, at least I couldn't find any reference to the PSN there. I did however find this :
http://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/ps3-eula/psn/e/e_tosua_en.html
which I'm pretty sure is the right one. I even read it, and it's so vague they've pretty much covered every angle, and the link to the up-to-date version is dead... Only thing that pops out is the talk about 'Additional Conditions' :

Certain content and services accessible through PSN may have specific additional conditions ("Additional Conditions"), for example, specific rules for certain games and usage rights for content. Please read these carefully as these Additional Conditions will also form part of your contract with us and may change from time to time. In the event of any conflict between these Conditions and the Additional Conditions, the Conditions will apply.

The only conditions for use I can find in-game is in the online portion of the game, which means it doesn't count since I've just seen ads doing campaign-races.:D

[Koleax]

Boycotting the advertisers might raise an eyebrow or two in some places, but refusing to play the game will not get anyone's attention. If Sony sold zero copies of Wipeout from this day forward, and no one played online of offline, I don't think they'd have a problem. That's the sentiment I get from their so brazenly putting ads in a game that's a year old. "Fine, quit the game, see if I care."

I already knew they didn't care, though. They're Sony. They care about money and delivering product, not caring for people. This is not entirely a bad thing. I don't particularly want to be friends with Sony. I'm content with their supplying me functional equipment and content at prices I'm willing and able to pay.

If they find out that a number of us are willing and able to pay for a DLC that will remove ads in an amount that's greater than what they would otherwise earn through the ads, they might release one.

$$$ > $$

That is the language they understand.

[yeldar2097]

Cool adverts = win
85% Rocky, 15% Buy a PS3 = lose

I have a PS3 and Rocky can suck ma chudz.

I personally think that no matter how dimwitted Sony think their audience is, showing the same adverts over and over and over and over and over and over again is taking it just a little too far. We get it, we should buy a PS3 and Rocky on Blu-Ray, now leave us alone. Please?

[ProblemSolver]

Based on what you've said ProblemSolver, would it not be possible to use the PS3's/a router's proxy server function to go through a server in an ad-free country? ...
Yes, that should work. Take NightArh for example, he lives in the Ukraine and
he doesn't get any ads by now;

there are no ingame ads for my ip address ...


... Still haven´t downloaded the patch. It´s hard because i want to play online :mad:
You can at least download patch 2.10 without having to see all the ads while
playing offline. Here is how it works. Download patch 2.10 and as soon as
the installation process has finished (before the game starts again) plug-off
the ethernet cable from your PS3 to get (temporarily) disconnected from the
PSN. Now quit the game and put the cable back in to sign-out of the PSN. As
along as you stay away from the PSN you can play WipEout with patch 2.10
applied and without having to see all the ads. If you sign-in while the game is
running, a hidden XMB background download is started that downloads all the
ads. Note: The ads are stored (internally) within the WipEout HD folder. Hence,
they can be deleted from disc upon deleting WipEout altogether.

@lunar: Up to my point of view, I think that integrating ads into an already
paid product afterwards cannot be legal. We bought a product that offers Online
Play right from the get-go. But later on we have to pay, by viewing ads, to
play online. Ok, we don't have to agree on the terms and conditions of patch
2.10, but this would remove an integral component of the game we already paid
for, i.e. Online Play. So I can't see how such an action can be legal.

@DrMannevond: I've already read a lot about this company. I'm going to post
some interesting stuff quite soon.

[Koleax]

I just watched the behind-the-scenes video of WHD that's available on PSN and as they kept talking about how great and revolutionary the game was, I kept trying to imagine them saying "with ads" and "which is why we're so excited to put ads in it" etc.

[Constrictor]

Does Sony offer a Customer-Care mail or phoneline? I'm too lazy to look up for this atm. I am in the mood to give them a call or even write a letter and request refund and removal of the game. Would be interesting how they react.

@mizunoori: I miss u :P And yes, loud they are - and in German - very uncool, very annoying and very redundant.

btw, Tournaments are a way to prevent ads IMO. I never got one in a tounrey. @yeldar, did u get one yesterday in z1's 8 race tourney where you f'up big time compared to your normal racing skills :D ?

btw^2, In normal online races I think it's 1:4 or even 1:3 ad appearance. Way too much

[mizunoori]

You can at least download patch 2.10 without having to see all the ads while
playing offline. Here is how it works. Download patch 2.10 and as soon as
the installation process has finished (before the game starts again) plug-off
the ethernet cable from your PS3 to get (temporarily) disconnected from the
PSN. Now quit the game and put the cable back in to sign-out of the PSN. As
along as you stay away from the PSN you can play WipEout with patch 2.10
applied and without having to see all the ads. If you sign-in while the game is
running, a hidden XMB background download is started that downloads all the
ads. Note: The ads are stored (internally) within the WipEout HD folder. Hence,
they can be deleted from disc upon deleting WipEout altogether.

To trick the system like that only for a patch, haha that´s great :D
But i think it should work. Nice find PS :)

I don´t know much about IP adresses etc... Is it possible to create a new PSN account with the land Ukraine (as an example) to get no ads?

[lunar]

I personally think that no matter how dimwitted Sony think their audience is, showing the same adverts over and over and over and over and over and over again is taking it just a little too far. We get it, we should buy a PS3 and Rocky on Blu-Ray, now leave us alone. Please?

So much for ensuring that the advertising is embedded as sympathetically to the overall experience as possible (http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2009/10/28/wipeout-hd-patch-2-10-incoming/)

[Constrictor]

Just curious w/ ref. to PS hint: Does anybody w/ applied 2.10 patch and psn online did experience ads in offline mode (viz. racebox or campaign) I did not. Hence, I do not play offline races that often.

[Lance]

Sony owns a looooooot of movies.

On blu-ray. Which Sony owns patents for. Which a PS3 is a player for.

I wonder what most of the adverts will be about.

[ProblemSolver]

@Constrictor: You can be pretty sure that I've tested it multiple times. After
patch 2.10 is applied and the game starts (while being connected to the PSN)
the ads are downloaded. Quitting the game doesn't help, it's an XMB background
task. Once they are on disc they are also display in offline races.

@mizunoori: Might be possible, but I don't think so. The ads are likely based on
one's IP.

[iLikeMu]

Just curious w/ ref. to PS hint: Does anybody w/ applied 2.10 patch and psn online did experience ads in offline mode (viz. racebox or campaign) I did not. Hence, I do not play offline races that often.

The ads do appear in offline modes. I got the patch when I first started up the game last Saturday while logged into PSN. During my ~2 hour session I played only offline races, and at the time I estimated the ads appeared on about 10% of the loading screens I experienced. It's possible that choosing to replay a race without returning to grid negatively influenced the frequency, since in my experience the loading time in this case is much shorter (presumably since the track data is already loaded). I did replay several races in this fashion during my session.

I also experienced the issue with PixelJunk Monster ad, which I believe has been mentioned here before. Very frustrating... :(

[Connavar]

... I already knew they didn't care, though. They're Sony. They care about money and delivering product, not caring for people ...
What's the point of saying this?
Money is the goal of every company, it's the reason they exist, they're not
gonna make games for free of course, and when any company appears to care
about its customers, it's only because they think this move that generate
them even more money, in the long term.

[xEik]

Since I'm still working my way through the campaigns and don't play online yet (I plan to do it only after finishing the campaigns) I have decided not to download the patch.
So, I still have two HD grids and the full Fury campaign before I have to see any ad. :P

[yeldar2097]

@yeldar, did u get one yesterday in z1's 8 race tourney where you f'up big time compared to your normal racing skills :D ?

Lol ^_^
No you don't get ads during tourneys, at least I hope not... :lol
Yeah that tourney was awesome, although I didn't really make any mistakes tbh, everyone is just too fast nowadays. Also, Triakis + Lag = recipe for disaster :g

[Koleax]

Connavar, if you continue reading after the selection you quoted, you should find the point.

[Rapier Racer]

I think the idea floating around of charging more for the game hasn't been given proper full consideration. Remember, some...(more than that really) people are idiots and as such would brand HD as a port or rehash of whats already been done with little regard to the no doubt monumental efforts put in to transform these tracks from PSP to PS3. Holding that thought, I would have to believe these people would not be willing to put their hand deeper into the pocket and pay more for what has in their mind, already been done.

Of course those aren't my views I would have paid double the price no questions asked but that doesn't matter as I'm in this minority of hardcore fans. What people on this site are willing to pay is largely irrelevant don't you think?

If selling the game on the cheap side was what it took to make sales, to encourage Sony to commission a fresh Wipeout for PS3 then so be it as far as I'm concerned, even if they need to make some money back with advertising. If however there are no plans for a totally new Wipeout for the PS3 then oh dear, my attitude towards this entire situation takes a most dire turn and Sony would be money grabbing trolls, who deserve to be sent to hell and made to eat nothing but Brussels sprouts.

For the record I don't appreciate the advertising as such, I find it tolerable though, tonight it seemed like they had changed the volume on the adverts to match the game I did not notice an increase in volume when they came on.

[Koleax]

I don't think it's largely irrelevant. There's a rule of thumb in business called the "80/20 rule," which is a general observation that 80% of your revenues come from 20% of your customers and vice versa. It pays real money to pay attention to your repeat customers. That's us.

Instead of blaming Sony or a shrouded committee, I'm trying to decide whether -Name deleted- is the blue team's Fat Princess, which would make -Name Deleted- the red Fat Princess, or if it's the other way around. Maybe it will become clear to me after the next 20 ads.

[SaturnReturn]

Koleax - Please stop naming names of individuals in the way that you are. It only has the potential to cause problems.

[Sausehuhn]

Just by the way: In retrospective I just noticed that since the first day I played with ads, I did not play the game a single time again.
And yes, I did play other games, but ptobably just didn't feel in the mood to get annoyed by extremely loud speakers and such.

It's especially annoying in Zone Mode for me. Because I always race it with SFX muted, rumble turned of and only chilled music playing. The idea to play Zone with ads alone kept me away from turning WOHD on. Can you imagine how well the ads can destroy the mood?

[ProblemSolver]

... I just noticed that since the first day I played with ads, I did not play the game a single time again. ...
Same over here....

[Koleax]

Koleax - Please stop naming names of individuals in the way that you are. It only has the potential to cause problems.

I would not have named the Game Director and Technical Director for Wipeout HD Fury, if the administrator of this forum did not specifically assign responsibility to them.

Since only the names were deleted in my post above, I will consider the Game Director as the "blue Fat Princess" and the Technical Director as the "red Fat Princess" and together as "the two Fat Princesses." The name comes from a specific ad that I've watched now dozens of times while playing a game they directed.

[yeldar2097]

I've decided that in a way I kinda like the adverts.

My decision is final, you shall all be of the same opinion as me and you shall chill your proverbial winstons :P

Ok scrap that last bit...
Anyways, yes the additional bugs and lack of leaderboard updates are annoying, however, after much reflection (and being away from my PS3) I think that the Adverts are quite fun in a way. Not offline so much as online. I haven't played much since the adverts but having a bit of a playful bitch/banter about them in a PSN chatbox before the race makes for much fun.
"DAMN YOU ROCKY" "STFU I ALREADY OWN A PS3" --> many smiles all around as the race loads --> more fun on the track because you're in a good mood/aren't taking things quite so seriously :D
No jokes, fact.
:g

Suck my misplaced positivity and naive sentiment :p

Having said all this, I wouldn't say no to a game sans bugs and a free skin editor ;)

[QjonPL]

So maybe we should stard a thread: "What's your favourite Ad?", hm?

[DrMannevond]

@DrMannevond: I've already read a lot about this company. I'm going to post
some interesting stuff quite soon.

Yeah, me too. Found, among other things, a Q&A with the boss of the company from 2006 where he lays out his vision for the future (as in : Now).
Pretty interesting stuff. Will see if I can find it again.
BTW : Does anyone know if Double Fusion is the company responsible for the ads this time (I'm assuming they are, but haven't seen any explicit confirmation)?

Edit : From the Playstation blog :

"It is our hope that by adopting this approach to dynamic advertising, it will be possible to create new associations in a unique way."

Dynamic? Wow! Is that what they call vandalism these days? And yeah - I'm getting some pretty unique associations after watching too many ads. Like associating the head of Sony marketing with :turd and :evil.

And one final thing : The boss at Double Fusion has been bragging incessantly about their fantastic technology that can deliver dynamic 3D ad content to games instead of the boring old billboards you see in every racing game. So why the heck aren't they using it? How many frickin racing games are there that ALREADY have 3D ads in-game and a perfect opportunity for Double Fusion to show off this amazing tech? I would actually like it if I suddenly saw a 3D State Farm hologram above the track, but nooo - much better to not even incorporate your tech into the game and just show some "dynamic" videos, over and over and over.
These ads are about as dynamic as this quasicode :
showAd = random(3);
if (showAd=2) {
adNumber = random(5);
onLoadScreen.show(adNumber);
}
OMG! I just made a Dynamic Peripheral Content Delivery System! Somebody call Sony Marketing, quick!:D

[Lance]

Since discussion of adverts has nearly eliminated discussion of any other 2.10 issues, I've split the discussion into two new threads, one only for discussion of adverts [but not the starting of lawsuits], and one for the other performance issues. There is also a new thread just about leaderboard update failure.