What do you think?

[Vartazian]

My Statement: Anything below Phantom Takes no Skill

To be Competitive that is.

I find that the problem with Racing Rapier and Flash is that It far too thrust / Turbo Reliant.

In Phantom you can pull of barrell rolls in places where its impossible to without a turbo in the other race classes. Which means I think there are good racers stuck in the (Ill call it FL and RA classes from now on) FL and RA classes.

For instance. I was Racing Altregorr (I hope I spelled the name right) and a Single rocket hit placed him second to last for 3 races in a row. I felt bad. (I didnt firethe rockets) and I know hes a Substatially better Racer then that (He can go toe to toe with me on Phantom).

I entered a room (of 8 ) 6 were goteki. Does that not Show that thrust makes a Huge difference in a race? This was mereley an Observation.

A single turbo in RA or lower can place you position at LEAST 4 seconds ahead of the person behind you (and it doesnt help when the person gets multiple ones in a row) PErsonally. I think Turbos should be Disabled in RA and lower. (Flame away peeps). Not too mention The Corners on RA/FA are a complete JOKE. A Retarded monkey could take those corners no problem.

I Hate how everyone I know is stooping down to rapier class. Theres almost Never any phantom rooms when im on. its about 5 Rapier an 2 flash whenever I log on.

So what are your thought on lower speeds?

Sorry for my "Rant" I just like posting evidence why I Dislike certain things.

PS: Oh yeah this only applies to online by the way. Setting times on Rapier and Flash is hard and I respect people who do it.

[mangaroo]

I like to race at rapier because i just find it more relaxing then at phantom which stresses the hell out of me with weapons :) {also im terrible}

[BlochNWhitey]

I have to agree, the only speed other Phantom that I've raced online is Rapier, and it was nearly completely reliant on the random turbos and overall thrust of the craft you're racing. Not to mention weapons. ;P

I used to race Rapier online when there weren't any Phantom races online, now if there aren't any I just default to offline Phantom singleraces.

[stinkleroy]

Wow that's a pretty ambiguous statement there. One which I wholly disagree with. I think that you are a little arrogant in you choice of words, if you were to say 'those speed classes easier than phantom' - yes, but to state that a retarded monkey could fly these speeds is just insulting. I have respect for the top pilots at every speed level as it takes dedication and skill to get there.

[Seraphim1982]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there Vart. I normally race flash or rapier class and I notice a significant skill difference between the players. The corners are easier, I definitley agree with that but that makes the line taken so much more important, so often do I start at the back of the grid on anulpha pass and all seven of my opponents take the first corner around the outside while I take it on the inside and come out in front of everyone (and then get a missile up my exhaust pipe lol).

I do venture into phantom class every now and then and I can hold my own against those who race regularly there but it requires so much of my concentration it often feels like work. I stick to the lower speed classes because it's enjoyable for me and thats the whole reason I bought the game.

[IDReaper]

I don't think I follow you 100% on this one. I race flash with Motorsagmannen and VinnyMonster from time to time and I will agree on the turbo/weps part to a certain degree. But I still think there is a certain degree of skill involved as far as planning BR since they are more difficult and cutting down your line as slim as possible. It is more deliberate and strategy focused, albiet easier to handle. The rockets/missile/bomb thing happens to me in Phantom too btw(I'm really unlucky TT). My preference is still Phantom because hard practice and timing prevails. Don't judge the Goteki user for being down with flash XD.

[JJohnEames]

Interesting tread Vart. I would agree with you that turbos make or break races on flash or rapier but i think that flash and rapier can be quite difficult as much more people can race those speeds making it much more compititive. I dont think that because someone races on a lower speed makes them a worse player, they just might like that speed class.

P.S. Does no one race for the sheer joy of it anymore? I just race for fun, If i set good times or win races thats just a bonus. Playing this way reduces the stress by tenfold. :lol

[crawdad62]

Just about every reason you give for how the lower classes of "no skill" is exactly why I think they do take skill. You have to use a lot more skill to plan out BR's. Weapon pickups and Speed Pads are critical.

I'm not particular with any class. I race them all. I suppose if I could race any room I wanted (and not what was presented to me) it would be Rapier or Phantom but I've had a blast racing in Venom too. In fact a couple of days ago I raced in a room with a great host that had PA off, kept switching tracks, had a full room and great racers and it was Venom. I'd rather race that than the few Phantom rooms that were there with PA on and a bunch of pilots smashing their way around the track. But hey I'm probably not up to your skill level.

[pirahpac]

omg! who are u varzatian for talk like this??u talk about ur skill on phantom ? really? where,?first time i see ur name here ..cuz on any leaderboards i cant see ur name..so= lol , shut up plz and dont critic other players who play that classes.... (one week again for me ?:redface:)

[KGB]

In your own inimitable style pirahpac, you are kind of right. ;)

You will annoy a lot of people with threads like this Varty, good luck! :lol

[Connavar]

I disagree, damn...
It takes less skills online, but that's only because the majority of top pilots
are racing Phantom:

1) You can do tons of BRs in venom/flash/rapier, they are not as easy to pull
out as in Phantom but they're doable

2) Corners are easier to take, but a good player will take them better an cut
a lot of time

3) Turbos are useful in every class, give me 5 turbos and I'll win you about
any race in Phantom :)

So basically, the better player wins, I've had some really close and good races
in Flash and Rapier. I tell you if Phantom didn't exist then you would say:
Rapier is where the skill's at, because a lot more good pilots would be racing
it.

[Darkdrium777]

I will agree on the fact that Venom, Flash and Rapier are more and more, as you go down the scale, reliant on luck (turbo) and thrust, especially against members of this forum right here (Because we all get the boost start and the speed pads with perfect laps).
And I won't dignify a host with my presence if he's a complete twit and sneak-changes speed class just before starting the race. ****ing idiot. I enter Phantom because I want to race Phantom, not because I want to race Flash for crying out loud.
Not that I would really mind racing Venom or Flash if I enter the room labelled as such, because it is still WipEout, but I generally race Phantom exclusively because I appreciate the challenge level and because I can.

However, as far as the no-skill argument goes, it is in my opinion incorrect. Venom is considerably slower for us, thus easier in terms of racing (going around corners, etc.) but saying it takes no skill is incorrect. It still requires some time invested and some skills developed to be able to go around corners at Venom speed (Some people have trouble with Venom, I feel it is required that we try and help them as much as we can)
I respect any and all pilot who has enough drive behind them to keep playing the game no matter what happens to them one day on the track (I noticed Japanese pilots where very dedicated, for example; not really surprising I think but it's good for them). This is what it takes to master WipEout, by showing they want to it's very cool :)
All the others who stop on weapon pads and try as much as you can to mess up the race for everyone else, GTFO. They don't want to invest the time to develop the required skills so no respect from me to them.


Sorry for the included rants :p

[crawdad62]

All the others who stop on weapon pads and try as much as you can to mess up the race for everyone else, GTFO.

I guess I've got to knock on wood. I've heard people talking about these jerks doing that but I've never encountered it. And I'm glad too. I have had the last second room changers though. Usually if you watch the room will be set and they'll more often than not change ships. You can pretty much brace yourself for a whole different race than what was set at the beginning.

[komatos]

My biggest problem with Phantom (and even Rapier on some harder tracks and all of the Reverse versions), besides the fact that I tend to wall bounce because there's no PS3 NegCon :| is that, with the new 1.30 patch, the lags tend to be harder to correct afterwards. On Venom or Flash, if you get a 1/2 second - 2 second "hiccup" you can still correct your line. On Rapier and Phantom, most likely by the time the game catches up from the network lag you've slammed yourself into the next corner's wall. :(

[Vartazian]

It seems that We are split down the middle on this topic.

Maybe My Comment about the "Retarded Monkey" was a little too brash (But hey my IRL friends have the Intelligence of them and they can take the corners ;))

So I apologize to anyone I may of offended with that comment however. my Point still stands.

PErhaps Im just a bit Biased because of the MANY MANY times that I have raced Rapier then when the host changes to phantom and I start to win Most of the races I recieve Countless PM's Calling me a noob, and how Rapeir is the way to go.

Maybe it is also because I race to win and constantly strive to become the best I can be, So when Pirahpac's Comment about me not topping the leaderboards comes in, it just makes me want to Hit the top even more. Ive got quite a few top 10 in MP and SL/TT. so just because im not number one doesnt mean I dont know how to race. (If you want Pirapac I can make a phantom game and we can have a few races. just to prove my point you may win but its just to show that im not some noob coming in and stirring the pot.)

Im just irked that some people cap themselves at Rapier. They straight up stop there. and dont try to even go to Phantom because its "too hard". This is straight up laziness in my eyes (You may not share the same opinion).

I hold the Phantom Racers that have #1 Records in the Highest regard and I hope one day I might be able to reach that Apex of being #1, but these Rapier and Flash players that think they are all that because they know how to press "fire" with a turbo makes me sick.

@ Connavar. Yes FIVE turbos in Phantom may make it unfair but ONE in Rapier gives you an Insurmountable lead. You might as well just put your controller down.

[IH8YOU]

Vartizan - your comments have burned me.

I don't race phantom because I enjoy Flash and Rapier more. Am I lazy? Far from it. I start pulling down 9 plus BRs a lap on Sebenco in flash - each lap (unassisted by boosts) - and that makes me lazy? In Phantom, all you need to do is nose up, and you can do a BR almost on-call.

Any pilot who races a particular speed class WILL dominate in it - I know pilots who race slower speed classes - that you'd smite them on Phantom, but they would wipe the deck with you on their turf.

I don't see you much on the top 10s in Rapier, Flash or Venom - yet you look down on those classes? :naughty

[Vartazian]

Your taking my words out of Context IH8. I race Rapier In fact I race all speeds. and the Generalization that I have made that is Phantom is the hardest... And I race it the most.

What erks me is the fact that there is A huge surplus of Rapier rooms and that nobody is even trying to race phantom. hell put on PA if you need it.

If you dont think Im top 10 in any. Metropia - Rapier - Speed Lap. ( I havent checked recently but I was #6 or something a while ago)

People seem to think im not talking about Offline. Offline is a completley different story.

[JJohnEames]

[QUOTE=Vartazian;123851]It seems that We are split down the middle on this topic.

Maybe My Comment about the "Retarded Monkey" was a little too brash (But hey my IRL friends have the Intelligence of them and they can take the corners ;))

@ Vartizan : What the hell is this supposed to mean? Are you calling irish people retarded monkeys? Explaination please.:naughty

[Vartazian]

Nah. My Friends are retarded monkeys. They PLay Rapier. I was making a crack at my Dumb friends. Maybbbe I shoulda been more clear ;)

[JJohnEames]

Lol. IRL stands for The republic of Ireland hence the confusion.:o

[LOUDandPROUD]

Im just irked that some people cap themselves at Rapier. They straight up stop there. and dont try to even go to Phantom because its "too hard". This is straight up laziness in my eyes (You may not share the same opinion).

Wow... Whether they practice or not, some people just don't have the skill to compete on faster speed classes and that's no fault of their own. How do you know they haven't tried Phantom and just didn't find it fun for one reason or another? Or maybe they can race Phantom just fine, but prefer slower speed classes for any number of reasons? For that matter, why the heck do you care and what business is it of yours really? :naughty They paid for the game and they can race on whatever class they want. There are reasons SL provided different speed classes to race on and one of them is because what one person may enjoy, another may not.


but these Rapier and Flash players that think they are all that because they know how to press "fire" with a turbo makes me sick

Again, wow... What an ignorant slap in the face to so many pilots that are skilled in those speed classes. Yes, SKILLED. I disagree completely with your main statement, as well as with the majority of your other comments and opinions on this. :-

[Vartazian]

Your Clearly Angry Loud.

but You havent really adressed my point about the turbo. I have had a few people message me saying they are Amazingly better then me at this game all because htey got a few lucky turbos. And they decide to rub it in my face.

PErhaps a few rotten apples have hindered my opinion on the General "Rapier and Flash" community. I admit I know a few Rapier racers that are Pheonominal at phantom (Like my Partner Connavar who can mop the floor with me almost any day he wants.) and I give them the salute. if they prefer to race on Rapier Kudos to them Its fun for them.

Its those Rotten apples so to say that really Hamper my thoughts on the Community.

@ JJ. Sorry IRL for me means "In Real Life" as pertaining to my Immediate friends. in Canada. Sorry for the Confusion.

[JJohnEames]

No worries Vart, you weren't to know it meant that aswell. ;)

[LOUDandPROUD]

Ok then, to address your turbo sentiments, sure, they may provide a greater advantage on slower speed classes when you get one (or more), but that doesn't mean those speed classes take no skill. It might be a different type or level of skill, but it's skill nonetheless.

And yah, though I primarily race Phantom now, I still race on slower speed classes from time to time and I have plenty of friends here that do too. So, yes, this thread did strike a nerve with me, as you could tell.

I think you're right in saying that a few rotten apples have hindered your opinion on the general "Rapier and Flash" community...if you're letting them affect you in that way though, then they've won the mental war. Don't let them win...just brush it off, bro.

[crawdad62]

I just don't get this at all. If you'd said "I prefer the sheer speed and piloting skill of Phantom racing over the weapons/boost strategies of the lower speed classes" then I could see your point. I wouldn't necessarily agree but at least I could see your take on the situation. But when you say that it takes no skill to race Rapier et al then in the same breath you say that when the host changes to Phantom you start to win? Why the heck can't you win these "inferior" races? You'd think you'd win those too. Especially since they're so beneath you. What? It's because boost plays into those more so? Well then you better learn it because it sounds like you're not winning too much.

I actually think playing in Venom is rather hard. In fact I made a post about it here. Why? You're timing's all off. You can't BR where you could in Phantom. You (I) can't make corners as easily since the turn-in is so much further into the corner than at faster speeds, etc. etc.

But anyway it's your opinion and you're welcome to it. However it's in rather poor taste to present it in the way you did. If you're good you're going to come out on top (or close to it) regardless of the speed class. If you're not coming out on top maybe you might race a little more in those lowly speed classes and you may even garner some respect for the pilots that race them regularly.

[blackwiggle]

I found that the Flash & Rapier speed classes are just as hotly contested as the upper realms of the Phantom league.

You get your specialists at their preferred speed ,and they can be just as hard to beat as a Wellington or Wotan.

[RedScar]

Anything below Phantom, the race is almost 100% decided in the first lap with the remaining laps for the one or two close battles remaining. I've fought my way back from 7/8th to 3rd in two laps on a phantom race without any turbos, not possible on anything lower. I enjoy phantom and even though I am not the best at the speed, so I will stick with it.

[Avenger2197]

I don't agree with you Vartazian, not completely anyway. I feel that although slower the Rapier, Flash, and Venom classes are harder than Phantom. It's not so terribly easy to recover from heavy weapon hits, or when you just plain screw up your line. When racing fellow Zoners that whole " Fly perfect, or die trying" aspect of the game seems to be amplified at slower speeds.

Connavar said it best, good players will be good no matter the class of speed.;)

As per the "luck" arguement, that is just one part of the strategy involved at the lower classes. No race is winnable, unless you make it so. Anyone can fire off a turbo, but those who know how to use it properly can win no matter what.

Just my 2 cents.;)

[Connavar]

I agree with many replies, especially LOUDandPROUD, I'm gonna say what he
said to emphasize it: Vartazian you're a great pilot no doubt, tons of potential,
but there are pilots who are just not as good to handle Phantom, or they the
simply don't like it, so they're racing Rapier for FUN. Myself I had been racing
Rapier for a few months, I started Phantom recently, I took my time.

I respect that you like Phantom only, great for you, because you'll progress
even more quickly on it, just don't look down on other pilots enjoying the game.

See you soon online :)

[Firedshot]

I think that you should take a look at the top pilots connavar's website for each class and challenge them to a race in that class and then make the statment if you win! To be honest with you i think it's all about racing style, i don't race phantom i have how ever got the trophies for phantom elite etc and i just can't stand it!

To be honest the best Wipeout player would be some one that can beat the field no matter what class there racing in!

[lunar]

I just race for fun, If i set good times or win races thats just a bonus. Playing this way reduces the stress by tenfold. :lol

Absolutely. I do play to win, or at least to do as well as I can, because that`s what you have to aim for when you`re on the start line, but if I`m not in the mood for Phantom because I`m tired, drunk, stressed or just don`t feel like being at 100% then I`ll happily race Rapier, or any speed if I`m out of it enough. I just like racing. If there was no skill involved below Phantom class then the better and more experienced pilots would not mostly win at slower speeds. But they do mostly win at slower speeds. If I`m not winning at Rapier against people not from wipeout zone there`s no point me just saying they are noobs having a good run of luck with turbos. I need to get faster and up my game! Phantom class is where weapon luck probably has the least effect, but it also depends on the track. I think weapon luck is certainly more of a factor on Moa Therma Flash than it is on Sebenco Reverse Phantom, and is more likely to swing a win for the less experienced player, but on any speed there`s plenty you can do to win a race by being quicker and plenty of ways to increase skill and speed, I think.

[IH8YOU]

Everyone keeps looking at weapons as if they're only luck - they're not. And that is precisely why I enjoy the slower classes so much more. TACTICS play a massive role in Flash - holding that quake until they're about to jump over a gap - so they fall down it - that's as much skill as cornering in Phantom. Because you still have to corner, and you have to be aware of who's around you - knowing how your weapon will influence them.

Lest we all forget the no-weapons option in the races - so if you want to see who has the cleanest lines - just toggle that on.

All this said - no matter what class, race style (speed lap, multiplayer, ect...) I'm always lagging behind Connavar in the top 10s.

So the best pilots - generally speaking - always do come out on top. :cold

[SaturnReturn]

I entered a room (of 8 ) 6 were goteki. Does that not Show that thrust makes a Huge difference in a race? This was mereley an Observation.


I'm in a flash room and there are 4 Icaras, 2 piranha, one triakis, and then there's me. I'm in Mirage and I came second in the first race and first in the second race. At one point I had to wait on moa therma to fire rockets. I needed the perfect angle to hit the guy way in front. I'd say it took skill to do that and it was fun when I succeeded. EDIT: Also, I was competitive throughout on whatever track. As the Mirage is an all-rounder, I'd say I can't put decent results down to being particularly thrusty, or particularly fast. I didn't get lots of speed boosts either so I wouldn't put it down to that. So I'd like to think that some level of skill was involved. There were times when the winner got lots of boosts and finished 5 or more seconds ahead, but that can also happen easily in phantom anyway. Overall, based on this limited experience, I'd say flash and rapier are just like phantom, but slower, although not actually all that much slower in the case of rapier.

P.S. Goteki-45 FTW :guitar:rock:guitar

[rushin]

pfft, what a load of bollocks!!

Not everyone has the reflexes of a 16 year old on speed. I was awesome at phantom 10 years ago playing WO3. these days not so much. If i played 20 hrs a week i would be more competitive, but its a game not a job. I get a lot more enjoyment racing at rapier thanks very much.

I take it your rant is due to the fact you cant find enough phantom races going on? Or you are just amazingly arrogant? Hopefully its the first one, but its still no reason to berate everyone playing at lower speed classes o_o

get over yourself mate.

[Lance]

Here in this thread we see the result of claims stated with an excess of certainty based on analyses too shallow and narrow and likewise a failure to consider that different people have different standards. Such claims are fire waiting to happen. But at least he asked "What do you think?". Got answers, too. :g

I find that less colourful and pungent language used in opinions tends to result in less anger in response. Please consider this in future posting.

Note this example of how nOt to communicate here: http://wipeoutzone.com/forum/showpost.php?p=123692&postcount=983

[SaturnReturn]

Such claims are fire waiting to happen....words...I find that less colourful and pungent language used in opinions tends to result in less anger in response.


(Flame away peeps)

I think that was the whole point.

[Lance]

Not on this forum.

[Vartazian]

The Flame away was mereley a sign that I wasnt going to Respond to people who straight up attack me. (I guess my Sarcasm doesnt follow through to non American / Canadian people so well, I guess thats my bad)

The way I look at it is. As long as people remain Civilized (Which they have) a sensitive topic can be discussed. Since the Insults Havent really flown yet (and Im doing my best to disarm fights as I see them begin) we can still discuss the topic.

I hope this is okay Lance. I have already apologized for my vulgar comment in the original post. but I dont want to edit the post so that people entering the thread arent confused at what has hapened or has been said. I like to offer that priviledge to everyone who reads this thread.

Hopefully someone would be willing to read the entire thread before chastising me for my opinion.

I feel everyone is entitled to their own opinion so thats why I said "Go ahead and flame me for my opinion"

Just thought I would offer a little insight on my opinion on the matter. Look at is as you wish Lance. Just proving Im not just some butt-hurt noob ;)

[blackwiggle]

I Nu what U Wur talKg AbuT....

Who Am I kidding?

I wouldn't have clue what the vast majority of posts from the "Text u mufer" generation are on about.
I think even Lance would have to agree with that.

At least you [Vartazian] have grasped the basics of grammar,:+ and can express yourself without dropping to a idiots mobile phone means to express ones opinion.

The position regarding the different speed classes you have opined,has,actually left you little room to maneuver.
But I do get the gist of your argument.

If I agree or disagree ,matters not.

[KGB]

Just proving Im not just some butt-hurt noob ;)

Out of interest, why do you need to prove your not a butt-hurt noob (whatever that is).

And whats wrong with being one anyway (whatever it is).

Some of my best friends may be butt-hurt noobs for all I know.;)

[lunar]

There`s nowt wrong with it, and apart from noobs I would like to say that oldies can be butt-hurt too. I am often quite sore in my butt-parts after racing some of the faster pilots out there.

[SaturnReturn]

I like to think I have a fairly good sarcasm, but perhaps it does just mean different things in different countries or to different people. I did read the whole post and that's why I felt it was designed more to incite an extreme reaction, e.g. flaming, than generate discussion. This is the exact reason why I didn't initially reply. After playing a bit in the slower classes the other day though I felt I could offer an alternative view.

Anyway, to get back on topic. Do you really feel that much of a difference in speed between rapier and phantom, to the extent that corners could be referred to as a joke? I don't actually think they're too far apart in speed terms. It's similar to the difference between phantom speed lap/time trial, and an online phantom race, e.g. it's all phantom, but SL/TT just has an overall sense of being a bit faster. Probably because you hit all the pads, get more boosts, do more barrel rolls etc.

[ProblemSolver]

Phantom, Phantom, Phantom ... hmm.

Ahh I remember, Phantom is a color scheme that last for about 70 seconds. xD

[Darkdrium777]

Ahh I remember, Phantom is a color scheme that last for about 70 seconds. xDTehehe :lol
Anything below Supersonic takes no skill to be competitive, right? :P

/sarcasm

This is seriously the best example as to why this part of the argumentation is flawed. As said, it depends on the person and his ability, it's not something factual with a scale or something. ;)

[ProblemSolver]

Ok, I will now give the final answer for this thread;

Anything below zone 125 takes no skill.

xD rofl

[Firedshot]

Vartazian i challenge you to a 20 lap race on Vienta K in flash class, i'd like to see who come's out on top, enough of the talk time for the practical!

[Vartazian]

20 Lap Flash, 20 Lap Phantom. I do yours, you do mine.

[Firedshot]

Yeah that sounds like a plan, gonna have to practice my phantom like i said before don't ever race it lol

[LOUDandPROUD]

If spectate mode worked properly (maybe it will in 1.40?) I would surely be a spectator for those challenge matches!

[chboing]

and i would place my money on Firedshot in flash. and no money bet for phantom ...

i love those duels, there is something really old school into them. Like the potential america's cup match we'll have between team alinghi & team BMW Oracle: The one that wins is the one that is right :)

and i'd like the final conclusion of this thread to be : "Vartazian was wrong, he cant handle flash speed correctly" :D
Only one thing is disturbing me into this duel, Firedshot is 3rd Flash multirace player, Vartazian only 35th phantom multirace player (according to Connavar's site)
looks quite unbalanced to me ;)

[Connavar]

And after this, I'll also challenge Vartazian: 64 races:
Venom, Flash, Rapier, Phantom :)

[stinkleroy]

Isn't it a little unfair to challenge someone to race phantom when they don't play at that speed? He never stated phantom was easy, therefore has nothing to prove...it was never about who's better at which speed class, it was about proving to you that it takes skill to fly flash/rapier....:lol

[chboing]

exactly in french : "qui peut le plus peut le moins"
i guess this expression litterally translated as : "who can do the most can do the less" also exist in english ?
vartazian is obviously more skilled than Firedshot ( ;) ), (from his point of view of course) and should accept to make this challenge flash only, 8 races, 20 laps ! avalon or not :)

well said stinkleroy :+ (better than stinky-girl afterall sorry :p ... )

[stinkleroy]

Haha I so need to change my psn name :p

[LOUDandPROUD]

NOOOO! You would lose your identity, Cat! :P

I agree with you about the races...Vartazian should be content to race Firedshot on Flash only, considering his argument. I think he knows he will get embarrassed on Flash, so he wants to be able to retaliate on Phantom. :P Who knows though, maybe Firedshot is better on Phantom than we think and will surprise us...I'm calling an upset! :)

[Vartazian]

Hehe. All these people betting on me to lose. Its actually kind of funny gives me a chuckle.

Ive never really raced flash. Maybe an odd one here or there. But people dont want to see the phantom then I will Retract my Challenge. So. If I lose this flash round. Will everyone be satisfied?

Im doing it for everyone else. I already know this is going to be a slaughter.

But who knows It will probably be fun =D

PS: I think alot of people blew what I said completley out of proportion, They want my blood here. I love that thrill of Competition! Lets go Fired! Lets set up a time for this weekend?

[stinkleroy]

Nobody is out to get you Vart, and I'm not betting on anybody. I just think given your original statement then you should at least try to prove us wrong :lol

[Firedshot]

Sunday nigth at about 9pm gmt?

[SaturnReturn]

I hope everyone realises that it will prove nothing. The statement can't be proved either way. All anyone can do is offer their own opinion based on their own experience. The best that could happen would be if further experience of flash changed Vartazian's mind and if both guys have fun playing.

Speaking of a lack of flash experience - am I the only one who notices the following statement:
"Ive never really raced flash."

If you've never really raced flash, then how did you form your "opinion" on it?

[Firedshot]

I've already said to him if anything this should be fun so i really don't mind busting the walls in phantom. The only thing thats annoying me today is that they still haven't fixed the barrel role problem!

Lol saturn

[chboing]

a witch !!! he's a witch !!! burn him !! go fireshot !! :)