View Full Version : World Cup Qualification POLL

26th February 2009, 02:07 AM

I thought I would start a poll regarding,what,if anything,we should use as a basis for qualification to race in the WORLD CUP.

We have at hand the ability to use Connavars excellent records site to help in the qualification process.

Thread link:http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5767

Site Link:http://wipeout-rankings.mooo.com/

By using the different filters,and the input of each racer,it will be possible to rank each player both Internationally and within the country that they have chosen to race for.

What the poll is for is, to determine what would be considered the MINIMUM amount of records/times needed to be entered into the site to get a meaningful insight into both an individual racers ability, and of a teams ability.

The poll also covers what records should be used to determine these rankings/ stats.

PRO'S:Shows ability of racer against other racers within different speed classes.

CON'S:The records for Multiplayer are only available from the WOHD records,and only when online,these records are well known for NOT being kept up to date.

PRO'S:Shows the [Best Case] ability of each racer on each track at each speed,and gives an indication of the knowledge of each track,records can be taken from PERSONAL records kept on your console so you know they are up to date,even though the times showing on the WOHD online records might be out of date.

CON'S: Doesn't show ability of racer against others online,not all people have records for each track in SL & TT and /or at each of the required speed.

I have include FLASH speed in the poll as there seems to be quite a large number of players that race online at this speed,they should not be left out of the WORLD CUP,even if you only race at Rapier or Phantom speed please think of others that might want to enjoy participating in the WC BEFORE YOU VOTE,we need them to make this tournament a success,we also need to show that this tournament is NOT just for ELITE PHANTOM racers.

Likewise I have considered RAPIER times as needed because some pilots cannot as yet race confidently at Phantom speed,it also acts as a fine filter to differentiate between what would otherwise be closely equal racers.


Here are the amount of times needed to be entered into each particular section,these account for ALL TRACKS.

Multiplayer:Flash,Rapier & Phantom = 48
Multiplayer:Rapier & Phantom = 32
SL & TT:Flash,Rapier & Phantom =96
SL & TT:Rapier & Phantom =64

Also included in the poll is the chance to veto the whole idea if you disagree with this idea for use as a qualification method.

That's for reading this thread,please think about it before you cast your vote.

26th February 2009, 11:20 AM
the poll doesnt even include most the methods suggested in the original thread. .

plus theres no phantom only option.

26th February 2009, 11:31 AM
Haydn is clearly upset, lol.

This is a complete ****ing mess i gotta say, plus i really should be studying now. ****ing Economics is giving me a headache.

What is the methods used in the Wipeout Conventions that are held every year? Maybe we could use a break off method like that? and start off small.

26th February 2009, 11:47 AM
Did you read the post?

The whole point of using the ranking from Connavars site would be to help SORT individual racers,you would know automatically where you fell within the rankings,both of the country you intended racing for and within the world rankings.
You would know who to put in Phantom,Rapier,Flash,then you could hold qualifications within those speed classes.
Why have a lot of totally unnecessary qualifications when this site does most of the work for you.

Use it as a tool,nothing more.

I didn't realize that the whole world cup had already been decided to be raced solely for the benefit of Elite Phantom pilots.

I must of missed that,can you supply a link to the thread?

Other people want to be involved as well.
Nothing has been decided about anything,it's all been discussion,that's all.

It's supposed to be a Wipeout HD World Cup,with as many people participating as possible.
Not a Wipeout Phantom Elite racer World Cup.

The reason it hasn't taken off is because the majority of racers [which are NON phantom racers by the way]have felt the whole thing was elitist.

I'm trying to get interest in the World Cup,not alienate the majority.

26th February 2009, 12:17 PM
OK I'm not being elitist here but the WC should be phantom. The vast majority of people on Epsilons list are phantom pilots and the vast majority of people posting with views about it are phantom pilots.

Where are all these rapier and flash pilots at. They have not added their name to the list, (which is still low in numbers)!

I'm not trying to offend anyone, but flash at least, can not be included in a WC surely!

If someone wants Flash and rapier included in it, then they should come forward and say because at the moment there are no pilots of that class included in any discussion that i know about.

This could of been very simple, but has turned into a freaking nightmare! :lol

Again, not trying to wind anyone up but in trying to accommodate everyone we are in danger of leaving this idea dead in the water. :frown:

26th February 2009, 01:40 PM
Sorry if it appeared as Im having a right go at you buddy. Truley isnt my intentions. And to answer your question, yes, i did read all your post.

I just felt if your going to initiate a vote on what to do, at least include the options members have already suggested... I mean EPSILON came up with the idea and his method isnt in there.

26th February 2009, 02:25 PM
Well, speaking for myself, I'm willing to play on Phantom if that's my only option...even though I likely wouldn't do a whole lot of good for my team, as I generally finish towards the bottom of the pack when racing against top Phantom pilots. I'm far more proficient at Rapier and Flash speeds and, given that, I'd probably be more suited to racing at one of those speeds (Rapier preferred) if given the option.

Now, NOT speaking for myself, I know Stinkleroy's preferred speed is Rapier also. While I'm pretty sure superpj1's preferred speed is Flash. I'm sure there's plenty more folks here that prefer those speeds as well...maybe they'd present themselves if it was made clear that there's a place for them in this tourney too (if there is...lol).

Like I said though, if it's Phantom only, I'm still willing to participate...and lose. :P

26th February 2009, 02:31 PM
Honestly,how much harder would it be to include Rapier and Flash classes into the WC?

Not hard at all.

You just make 2 other groups up,tell them who they would be racing and get the results.
What's difficult about that?
It's not like each racer is going to be racing in every speed class.
If your saying/delegated to race Phantom,well that's what you race,nothing else.

You would have to do the same thing with multiple qualifying races to trim down those teams with huge numbers anyway to get the team "A" Phantom

[For an example only]
The teams with huge numbers of Phantom racers could say,sorry,you didn't make the cut for the Phantom team you can fight it out with the other that didn't make the cut and if you get the best results your in the Rapier team if you like [some might say no thanks,others might jump at the second chance]

Likewise,those who didn't make the Rapier team might want to fight it out to make the Flash team.

A country might not choose to have a Rapier or Flash team,it's up to them.

They don't HAVE to field teams in the RAPIER or FLASH speeds,that's NOT what I'm suggesting.


26th February 2009, 03:43 PM
This is a good idea in theory having the lower class speeds to gain more interest in the Wipeout World Cup idea. But to be honest, it would be best to keep this idea simple, i mean real simple. One speed class, then work off that. Then if this entire Wipeout World Cup idea takes off, then we can add all these additional ideas.

26th February 2009, 04:12 PM
I agree, Kigo, it needs to be simple or there will be problems with misunderstandings, for one thing. What is also needed is leadership, imo. I think there is too much democracy in this idea at the moment. I think the best vote to have would be for us to decide who is going to be the tournament organiser. This person would get to set the rules as they are doing all the work. We could just vote for which person we fancy as the organiser, depending on how much we like their ideas for the competition and how well we think they would organise it. Then when we have a leader we just crack on with some racing! If we have a dedicated leader with a couple of trusted deputies this thing will happen, otherwise I think it`s just going to die out in confusion :) I am not applying for the job, as organising this would be a lot of work and I don`t have the time or energy, but I really think it needs some decisions in order to advance, and decisions require leadership sometimes. :banzai

26th February 2009, 06:46 PM
Did you read the post?

The whole point of using the ranking from Connavars site would be to help SORT individual racers.

The reason it hasn't taken off is because the majority of racers [which are NON phantom racers by the way]have felt the whole thing was elitist.

I'm trying to get interest in the World Cup,not alienate the majority.

It's a fair point about Connavar's site. It would be very helpful. But records are always a bit skewed in my opinion. I know you can use the multiplayer race records only. But there are ways to get good times on those which some people would consider using for the sake of easier records, and which others wouldn't.

And personally I really feel that the single biggest reason that this hasn't take off is because pretty much everyone expects that either:
A. It's going to organise itself; or
B. Everyone should vote on every single decision that's made.

EPSILON suggested it and everyone jumped in with their ideas. That was great, it was a very positive response. But the thing still needs organisation. That's the bottom line. I appreciate that this is what you are trying to do. I will read the rest of the thread at some point when I get time in case the comments I just made are pointless. But they're just my views for now.

EDIT: Just read the other thread - thanks for the 2nd. Only you and Mad-Ice so far have commented but hopefully a few more will have some feedback.

I voted for a veto - not that I don't like it as an idea. I think it's a good one in theory. But I think teams should be sorted first and then have the freedom to decide for themselves. I also think that seeing as most people that have got involved in discussions in some way are phantom pilots, it makes most sense for the moment to stick with organising a phantom event. We've already seen how hard it's going to be to organise, so maybe we try to get something for the one class first and then try to expand it. Personally, I would like to see a small event organised first to try and test the most obvious approach. Maybe just with 4 teams, doesn't matter who the players are.

26th February 2009, 06:50 PM
Yup, you are right Lunar! I already sent a PM to EPSILON earlier today. He has to make a decision on the rules and he should choose a leader and his deputies.

26th February 2009, 07:30 PM

Is it really necessary to go through the process of qualifying players? Why not just have one player step up to represent their country of origin and let them decide who will be part of the team? Teams are going to choose their best pilots by themselves; we've no reason to add restrictions that force them to do it. Further, should a team really want to pick their five-year-old brother or pet turtle, it won't be giving them an advantage; thus, it has no effect on any other team.

Perhaps, in the spirit of the tournament, we should require that each player may only join a team from their country of origin. But really, that's it.

26th February 2009, 10:18 PM
I agree about the head of tournament,I've been saying that from the start.

This whole thing could of been organized ages ago if a head of tournament had made final decisions on the various topics that have popped up.

The initial WC poster suffered from one major problem,language barrier.

That's basically why we have gotten nowhere.

I'm quite happy to let the French sort out all the rules and plan out how to run it from the Wipeout Arena forum,it was their idea to start with.
They have the biggest team by far, so if qualifications are the biggest pain,they are the ones who are going to suffer it most organizing them

Let them do it and come back with the whole thing saying,"This is how it's going to be run".
They have had enough input of our combined ideas from us to know where we stand already.

2nd March 2009, 09:54 PM
Guys, all this is very nice and very promising.

But I've started playing HD 5 weeks ago, started at the campaing in full elite and finished it with elite AI all through and then stuck at Phantom online, SR, SL and a bit of TT and quite some zone mode but no other speeds at all (but a tad of trying to get the Zico tophy). This leaves me at 2 options: pick the last choice of the poll or be left out as it stands right now. I can not be the only one who does not play anything other than Phantom.. To be honest I think that is a bit of a mis in this story.