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crawdad62
4th November 2008, 07:02 PM
I must be doing something wrong. I'm not the best pilot but there must be something I'm missing. I've not really noticed it too much until today. I was in a 12 race tournament and it seemed like when I got hit with something or run into something I'd grind to a halt. Almost stopped. When the other racers got hit they'd wobble a bit and keep moving. What's the deal?

It was extremely frustrating. I'd be leading a race and boom all off a sudden I'd be in last place just because I got a missile up my exhaust. I'd be slammed into a wall every time. When I starting working my way back up the race I'd pound someone ahead of me and they'd slightly slow, wobble a bit and go about their race. Very disheartening. That and the guy in the Qirex that banged into me the whole time :-)

eLhabib
4th November 2008, 07:29 PM
Judging from your avatar I guess you are using Harimau? That's a very light ship, and it gets affected by weapons fire way more than a Triakis or Qirex, for example.

darkfaerytales
4th November 2008, 07:52 PM
are you sure? really? so the ship response to weapon attacks are different one to another in base at the supposed weight? as weel as take more damage the so called "light ships" or the ones with weaker shields, are much susceptible to hits and come toss around more than ship like triakis or piranha?

chboing
4th November 2008, 08:00 PM
of course ! try to bump into others with your icaras, and then with your triakis, and you should see the difference ;)

Amorbis
4th November 2008, 08:32 PM
As an Icaras pilot, I get exactly the same situation when I get hit with a weapon or bumped into, especcially when I get hit by a quake or fly into a bomb. I'm guessing it is to do with the ship's shield, and as eLhabib said lighter ships such as Icaras and Harimau get knocked around easier. For the small amount of time I used Piranha I didn't notice this as much, so I'm guessing that shield means more than just how long the ship survives for.

crawdad62
4th November 2008, 08:33 PM
I am indeed a Harimau pilot! :pirate

If that's the case I'll just have to take my lumps. It just seems overly brutal though.

Rubix42
4th November 2008, 08:54 PM
If you let go of the thrust and fire it back up after an impact, it helps keep you going as well, I think.

I do that and it seems to be a bit better on keeping your speed after a heavy impact, but it could be phsycilogical. (sp?)

Lance
4th November 2008, 09:01 PM
psycho


logical, that is. :)

darkfaerytales
4th November 2008, 09:03 PM
ok then i've a question
since you state that the shield stats is directly proportional to the mass/weight of the ship

if you put side by side an icaras and an assegai how can you say that assegai is an heavier ship than icaras, the assegai is so open and with tin hulls, practically the only compact part is the cockpit-engine/exhaust-airvents-airbrakers and the flat tiny hulls seems attached by such small and fragile bridges...icaras instead is all a single block...

then assegai should have a 5 of shield not a 7...

crawdad62
4th November 2008, 09:59 PM
Well to me it seems the different ships nuances are just that nuances. In my unskilled hands there's really very little difference between the ships. Sure one may have more speed or such than another but more or less they're pretty balanced.

Rubix I'll give that a shot. I'm always on the throttle the whole race.

lunar
4th November 2008, 11:04 PM
Maybe it`s related to the dreaded Pilot Assist. Perhaps that stops you flying into the side after weapon hits, and therefore helps PA users keep going. It seems to give people a big advantage in ramming encounters too. Any Pilot Assist users around here who can offer an opinion on this?

*tumbleweed* ;)

drenath
4th November 2008, 11:20 PM
You still drift into the wall with PA on

Avenger2197
5th November 2008, 01:37 AM
I've had better luck with the method Rubix described. Mashing down the accelerator after large impacts, or many small ones tends to work the best regardless of the ship used. Although lighter ships have a hard time starting back up so it may require a couple of presses to get going again. I know FEISAR has some trouble in that department.:g

lunar
5th November 2008, 03:08 AM
Useful information, thanks, I will try this mashing technique next time I play.

Darkdrium777
5th November 2008, 03:52 AM
I wouldn't know, I ride Goteki which has 100% thrust.

Stardragon88
5th November 2008, 04:07 AM
A little tip for when you get hit by weapons fire. If you know a missile or quake impact is going to push you in one direction, as fast as possible try to sideshift in the opposite direction.

It seems to help you regain your acceleration a little quicker, and it makes all the difference between staying more or less in the center of the track, or striking the wall and grinding to a halt.

Asayyeah
7th November 2008, 03:32 PM
I second you Stardragon88 this is a good tip especially when you been hit by a quake while you are racing through an open section.

Funnily enough i did changed my Assegai / Mirage online ship by Icaras, i noticed that difference of inertia when you hit by a weapon but Icaras simply rocks even on hardest tracks.

darkfaerytales
15th November 2008, 07:18 PM
i have to say that the different reaction to weapons of diverse ships and the real existence of a difference of mass/weight between the various ship is a BIG GREAT URBAN MYTH

i use all the ships, i've race many many times with all ships, i have to a min of about 11000 to a max of about 20000 loyalty points for every team

since i've been always doubt to the real existence to any mass factor who can bear on the reaction to weapons, collision beetwen ships and driving performance, yesterday afternoon i have do some various " test " which are the following

i've choose-anulpha pass, quite simple track with many straight parts. two players modes-single race-venom class - i have choose the 2 assumed extremes: player 1 Triakis ,player 2 Icaras
alone, i've past some hours test out various things, these are the facts:

-put triakis at the center of track , then charching at full speed with icaras hitting it against the rear, triakis did slip away like a bar soap, i've try it various times
-same thing but charging against the front, same reaction
-same thing,inverting the ships, triakis charge icaras, same reaction,i don't have noticed any difference
-put and left the ships sideways on the track awaiting for the AI racers, causing various front (AI) vs side (me) collision , a goteki, then after an ag sys then a mirage wasn't able to push away my icaras and cannot be able anymore to pass over me...various times, i've noticed when a ship hit with front a perfectly set up 90 corner ship by side , it cannot be abble to surpass the latter
-then various with weapons , picking up a missile the shoot against triakis , when hit trakis divert and/or slam agaisnt wall, various times...

-pick up a plasma, shot it full hit directly up the rear-shields at full 100%(HD HUD) , triakis lose 41% ( 59% left ) , icaras lose 47% ( 53% left ) , i've try it with other various ship, if you will be interested i will tell you what for others...

conclusion,then, it can be few things

-or different mass/weights do exist between ships and triakis and icaras weight the same...
-or my game have something wrong, and i've download a flawed copy...
-or i have miss out something...
-or i've do something wrong, or maybe mistake everything...

if someone can comment and explain to me


try yourself!



i'm talking only regarding HD obviously

i know the existence of discussion about this kind of things,
this thread is what did turn curiosity on me

http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2684&highlight=fusion+stats

H3avyM3tal
19th November 2008, 07:26 PM
Did someone try braking just before getting hit by a quake or a missile with both brakes, and than mash the accelerator? I need to try this myslef when I get home... I never did try the method Rubix suggested, but will try it.

Thimax
27th December 2008, 03:34 PM
I must be doing something wrong. I'm not the best pilot but there must be something I'm missing. I've not really noticed it too much until today. I was in a 12 race tournament and it seemed like when I got hit with something or run into something I'd grind to a halt. Almost stopped. When the other racers got hit they'd wobble a bit and keep moving. What's the deal?

It was extremely frustrating. I'd be leading a race and boom all off a sudden I'd be in last place just because I got a missile up my exhaust. I'd be slammed into a wall every time. When I starting working my way back up the race I'd pound someone ahead of me and they'd slightly slow, wobble a bit and go about their race. Very disheartening. That and the guy in the Qirex that banged into me the whole time :-)
I totally agree with you. What bothers me in HD is the weight of weapons in single races. In 2097 (which is, imo still the best WipEout) you have to drive really good to get gold at every track. But being hurt by a rocket or a mine doesn't throw you from the first to the last place and doesn't necessarily make it impossible to win the race if you make nearly perfect laps. In HD it does (btw I am mostly driving Assegai and changing the teams doesn't make a great difference for me)
Beside this, I have the feeling that getting the right items makes you rather win a race then performing a perfect lap. In consequence the single races are a little bit too luck dependent and you have to give a lot of tries even to win a stupid Flash race.

Nevertheless WO HD is still a great game for me but I fear they will never beat 2097.

RJ O'Connell
28th December 2008, 03:39 PM
For some reason if I'm racing online, I can fly THROUGH the bomb at some instances and not be affected, but I can't go around them cos they'll blow up... must be like driving through a hurricane - inside the eye you're okay, but step out of it and you're f***ed.

eLhabib
28th December 2008, 03:46 PM
My guess is that this is due to synchronisation inaccuracies online: the bomb will actually sometimes be in a slightly different spot than it appears. Your best bet is to go around it WIDE ;)

RJ O'Connell
28th December 2008, 03:59 PM
Or keep going through it - not like I can keep up with Wellington or any of the other elite pilots at this sage, so why not gamble? :g

Hellfire_WZ
28th December 2008, 04:24 PM
It's a weird one because mines work absolutely fine, they are exactly where they appear to be. Not sure at all what's so different about the bombs, I've been hit by one on the opposite side of the track before!

RJ O'Connell
28th December 2008, 04:26 PM
Cripes! Now that is a glitch.

By the way, are you working on a Wipeout HD FAQ?

Hellfire_WZ
28th December 2008, 05:12 PM
I'd love to, but my time is severely limited now because of my course. If it happens, it'll be a very long way off.

fr00tl00ps!
14th January 2009, 10:42 PM
I agree with chboing...if you have a lighter craft be prepared to get bumped/tossed around easier...and the higher leveled shield craft do have greater resistance compared to the harimu or dare i say the ag systems craft :P ...my team uses traikis for this very reason (the only con is that we can't accelerate as fast as a lighter craft, but with how we race..(rapier class) you need all the shield life you got, it can be rough out there :eek, and a turbo is by far the best acclerator out there, or the famous barrel roll :rock

Mig6, Praporshcihk of EFT

EFT...Challenging the World...one team at a time :sonar

blackwiggle
15th January 2009, 01:14 AM
I'm not 100% sure,it's just that I get the impression that the "weight" of the craft effects it's ability to lift enough to BR on the more obscure places around the different tracks.

Anybody else find this?

LOUDandPROUD
15th January 2009, 02:18 AM
Actually, yah, now that you mention it, I'm pretty sure I've noticed that too. Anyone else?

eLhabib
15th January 2009, 07:35 AM
Actually, I am getting more airtime with my heavy Auricom than I used to get with Assegai...

Nadia Elenova
15th January 2009, 08:00 AM
I've never noticed that difference according to ship weight. I think it's about speed and nose pitch more than anything

lunar
15th January 2009, 08:44 AM
I`m not sure about it, but I`ve always suspected that different ships have different amounts of "float" and therefore ability to BR and jump walls. On Moa Therma you can jump a wall to your left after the long mag strip quite easily in Auricom, but in Goteki it is much less reliable to do this as it doesn`t seem to get as much airtime. Quite a few BRs seem harder to get in Goteki than some other ships. Whether it`s actually a different amount of "floatiness" or just the outcome of different handling and speed characteristics I don`t know.

Sideshow
15th January 2009, 10:41 AM
It seemed to be that BRs are harder in the more agile (i.e. better handling) ships.

yeldar2097
15th January 2009, 11:30 AM
i think for the most part that's probably right, although i find it a royal pita to br an icarus compared to my overused AG. but i supposed i'm more used to the AG so that might be part of it.

YouAreFubar
15th January 2009, 11:46 PM
Ive swapped round a few teams in my time on this game. Im currently on Harimau and they do get pushed around very easily compared to say Auricom or Mirage. I couldnt say if it is linked to shields but there is definitely a difference between teams.

darkfaerytales
16th January 2009, 07:13 PM
why someone don't take his time and verify all this statements instead to come out with this " supposed " stuff about ship weight,ait time and so on

with all the respect but even if it would be , not that have much sense to me that a ship like goteki have less air time and less advantage in jumps & BR since isn't the heavier craft and is the ONE WITH MORE THRUST of all...

anyway the amount of height ( altitude ) in which one ship float from the ground different ship by ship has sense to me and it could easily be, since the so called " anti gravity generator " that one circular or rectangular things that emit light and/or spin below the ship could be set at 4 meter for a certain team or 4,5 / 5 meter for another team
, it would be easily verifiable in two player mode and put two ships side by side...

blackwiggle
16th January 2009, 08:11 PM
We are trying to verify the matter by posting our findings.
It's not like you can walk out onto the track and measure this stuff.

All craft will be riding at the same height at the start,the anti gravity generator would of been adjusted for the weight of the craft,and be set at a constant specific gravity [neutral buoyancy]

It's only when the craft is moving upwards that gravity would have an effect.

It would stand to reason then,that the weight of the craft would have an baring on the amount of lift it would get from a nose raising maneuver over a small hump in the track,that is unless the craft is already in an upward bounce.

IH8YOU
17th January 2009, 06:15 AM
I have been using Goteki 45 and Triakis a lot lately (as they don't have many loyalty points). When with Goteki 45 - if I missile hits me - I stop dead in my tracks every time. Granted, it accelerates decently, but I still hit a brick wall every time a weapon contacts me.

Now the Triakis, on the other hand - is like a rolling truck full of bricks. A missile hits me dead on, and I just think someone farted in the seat. It just slows down - ever so slightly - compared to Goteki.

I've noticed this with other weapons, but Missiles are fairly consistent with impact power. (unlike rockets, mines and bombs) Either a missile hits you or it misses - but rarely does it's effects vary from impact to impact.

Then again, I could just be smoking a huge brick of crack here, and imagined every bit of what I just wrote. :dizzy

okam
17th January 2009, 11:03 AM
Is there any difference between the speed classes and/or the difficulty setting? I just started working on the elite races a few days ago and it feels like my ship (usually assegai) is hit harder in elite than on skilled, and also harder than when racing other players online.

Of course it might just *feel* that way, but as far as I can remember from skilled, a rocket would knock me around a little, push me off my line and slow me down a little, but on elite I come to a complete stop most of the time. I dont remember anything like that from when I was working on the campaign the first time around (except for those nasty cases when the side of your ship is hit as you go around a corner, and the impact slams you into the walls, causing you to take two separate hits that both slow you down). They seem to do the same amount of damage to your shields though.