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DeaFen0
23rd October 2008, 10:55 PM
Is Assegai being abused and overrated in HD like it was in Pulse? I REALLY want a fresh start with this team.

Lance
23rd October 2008, 11:43 PM
"DeaFen0" used the thread title: "Too lazy to search... So I'll Just Ask."

Not the best title to let people know what you're looking for. I've gone to the trouble to provide you with a better one.

Dav657
24th October 2008, 02:13 AM
Is Assegai being abused and overrated in HD like it was in Pulse? I REALLY want a fresh start with this team.

really??? didnt know assegai was overused. :? And I agree with lance, stop being lazy!

Darkdrium777
24th October 2008, 03:31 AM
All I can tell you is that using Assegai isn't very ''original'' from what I've seen. However it isn't overrated, it's a good ship (All the ships are good).

TheFrostE
24th October 2008, 04:20 AM
thats right xavier, there is no over powered ship in HD, its all how you race them, contrary to some opinion on my loyalty to feisar, i still smoke people on the track, even as the slowest ship, and have been doing it for years. its all about your play style my friend

eLhabib
24th October 2008, 10:05 AM
I agree that Assegai is totally overplayed by everyone and their mother in wipEout HD. I wish it was more of an underground team, but as it seems it has turned into the fan-favorite. Oh well - I still won't switch just for the sake of being original. I'll just pretend everyone is using Assegai because they want to be like me ;)

And hey, I used Assegai first :P

TearsToShreds
24th October 2008, 10:59 AM
>_>

No, I used it first! ...

eLhabib
24th October 2008, 12:21 PM
I changed my allegiance from AG-SYS to Assegai back with w3o, and never looked back since...

OBH
24th October 2008, 12:30 PM
Their clearly overused simply because the starts show them as identical to Feisar, except better in one aspect (couldnt say off the top of my head which one, i dont really use either...). Having a whopping 7/8 racers in a game using assegai is always funny.

Rapier Racer
24th October 2008, 12:34 PM
Oh yeah well I use them constantly from the day I unlocked them in WO3... so.....MINE!

Sometimes there seems to be a lot of people using it but then I've had races where its me in Assegai surrounded by 6 Feisars, yes really. Assegai is not overrated.

Usually these clueless people who take it get whats coming to them, eliminated.

Axel
24th October 2008, 04:11 PM
Give it a month mate. Icarus will be the most over-rated team in WO HD. Assagai is just the flavour of the month

darkfaerytales
24th October 2008, 05:22 PM
yes i think the same , there's something wrong in a good way with icaras , this isn't absolutely a complain ( it's one of my favourite team ever )

Rubix42
24th October 2008, 06:16 PM
I think a lot of people are defaulting to Asegai due to it's high handling and quick jump.

Personally, I'm using Mirage as I just like the feeling. I will use Assegai if I'm playing a tourney of Chenghou, Sebenco, Sol and then the reverses, as the extra handling is mighty nice without sacrificing top end and acceleration.

TearsToShreds
24th October 2008, 06:33 PM
Well, in Speed Laps and Time Trials Icaras will obviously the best ship to get good times with, especially if you consider that Piranha handles like a brick and doesn't have the acceleration Icaras has. At least it seems to be that way, maybe it's too early too say. Usually a skilled player will get better times in a faster ship than a skilled player in a more maneouverable ship (say, Assegai/Mirage/Ag-Systems). Tame the beast. :P

However in Multiplayer I wouldn't pick an Icaras at Phantom speeds much. Not enough shield ;)

Hellfire_WZ
24th October 2008, 06:46 PM
Rubix, I'd say I'm the same when it comes to the feeling of a craft. I find craft like Assegai too light for me, if I'm not trying to haul the arse-end of a freight train around a corner it just doesn't feel right. But the logic is there to explain the abundance of Assegai on the grid online, most people start off in a high handling craft and see the Assegai as the perfect balance. Whether they'll ever really get to grips with the airbrakes though is another story.

darkfaerytales
24th October 2008, 07:01 PM
it's something strange to explain but i feel better whe i race with ship like auricom or piranha sometimes , when i use feisar for exemple i do much mistake in turns than when i race less friendly handling ship, it was more or less the same in wo3 , i like to call it " assegai syndrome " when a ship has too much handling and sensibility and tend to "overturn" when you do a turn or a corner

don't know if i've explain myself well

Rubix42
24th October 2008, 07:12 PM
Yes you have, overturning is very easy to do in Feisar, AG, Assegai.

Really I think it's probably because so many of the WO Zone members race Assegai, and beat people online by 10 seconds or more consistently. These people then start racing Assegai, etc, etc, etc.

darkfaerytales
24th October 2008, 07:19 PM
no but i mean that sometimes i get racelines wrong or smack in the turn ( or after a good turn) because of the excessive turn radius of certain ship, do you can undestand what i mean ? it happens to me in the old days of wo3 everytime i race with assegai

Asayyeah
24th October 2008, 07:29 PM
Personally, I'm using Mirage as I just like the feeling.
I am using Mirage online due also to the good feeling i got with it.
Offline it depends on the tracks ( icaras on easy tracks , others on hardest ones)

_glitch_
24th October 2008, 08:39 PM
Yes you have, overturning is very easy to do in Feisar, AG, Assegai.

And from my experience, it's easy to overdo it with a Goteki 45. It feels like a brick going into the corner... then when you think you're going to have time to avoid the inside wall when you straighten out, the 10 in acceleration kicks in and it plows you into the wall. Then if I try to correct, I usually end up overcompensating and hitting the outside wall...

Or maybe I'm just a bad pilot? Anyway, I was struggling last night on Outpost 7 (Pulse) with Goteki 45 and Triakis. I gave the Assegai a shot, and I nailed it. :D

What I can't understand is all these people flying EG-X. Is there something special about it? It seems rather mediocre to me - it isn't super fast, doesn't have super good handling, and doesn't accellerate exceptionally well.

_glitch_

Darkdrium777
24th October 2008, 08:42 PM
Or maybe I'm just a bad pilot?I wouldn't say bad, but it is possible to do the O7 turns even with a Piranha, so it's just practice. If you keep on practising with Goteki or Triakis, you'll nail these turns eventually :) They can all do it, just not exactly the same way.

BentoBako
25th October 2008, 11:47 PM
Sexy people use the Yellow Pimpmobile, G45. Trufax.

Darkdrium777
26th October 2008, 12:34 AM
For one moment I thought I had double posted :O
Woow, another one from Montreal, and in G45 no less! :hyper
I think that's three people from Mtl registered here, we've got to get something going someday :D
Welcome to WipeoutZone BentoBako ;) (Ou bienvenue si tu parles franšais)

jmoid
26th October 2008, 12:34 AM
it's something strange to explain but i feel better whe i race with ship like auricom or piranha sometimes , when i use feisar for exemple i do much mistake in turns than when i race less friendly handling ship, it was more or less the same in wo3 , i like to call it " assegai syndrome " when a ship has too much handling and sensibility and tend to "overturn" when you do a turn or a corner

don't know if i've explain myself well

I'm the same - I was using Assegai all the time time at first, but I've gone off it because it feels a bit too lightweight, it flicks around too much. In online games I've been using Qirex more and more these days as it's got a meatier feel to it, also in the inevitable first-lap scrum it can hold it's own against everything except Triakis, plus it looks v.cool in the second skin.

BentoBako
26th October 2008, 03:23 PM
For one moment I thought I had double posted :O
Woow, another one from Montreal, and in G45 no less! :hyper
I think that's three people from Mtl registered here, we've got to get something going someday :D
Welcome to WipeoutZone BentoBako ;) (Ou bienvenue si tu parles franšais)

Lol thanks :D

(et ouais je parle franšais ;D)

darkfaerytales
27th October 2008, 02:28 PM
What I can't understand is all these people flying EG-X. Is there something special about it? It seems rather mediocre to me - it isn't super fast, doesn't have super good handling, and doesn't accellerate exceptionally well.

_glitch_


eg-x is a strange beast, i swear sometimes i feel it more heavy and whimy than piranha or triakis
don't know if it's just me...

Sideshow
29th October 2008, 03:12 PM
I made this after I got the game: Analysis of teams (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pKTyKOdcGbzQAZP5qDoUvBg).
If we imagine that the teams are put together by spending points on the 4 traits (Thrust, Handling, Shields and Speed), it seems that the first three are all worth the same amount, while Speed costs more (and from playing around it looks like a cost 1.66 times more is the sweet spot).

This shows is how many points each team is worth under various conditions. The main columns being Speed-Weighted Total (which is the total point cost of the team assuming speed costs more), Speed Weighted No Shields (which disregards shield costs - applicable for Time Trial or Speed Lap) and Joint Band, which is a sort of average of those two. I've left the main table sorted by Speed Weighted No Shields, which is the category I'd use to judge by. Not entirely accurate to do so, of course; shields should probably be treated as a threshold value: based on whether you've got enough shields to finish the race or not, but I think that is too fuzzy to base stats off; I'm sticking to the numbers here :) I don't have enough experience racing online to see whether Icaras would dominate (my hunch was that it would, but from comments here it doesn't seem to yet.)

Anyway, have a look and make your own conclusions, but personally I think Assegai is definitely a very strong team. Not sure that that's why so many people pick it - I think it's more likely that new players choose it since it's stats look the best in the starting lineup (it basically looks like a fast version of AG-Systems). I picked Assegai because the ship look the coolest :/

Darkdrium777
29th October 2008, 08:38 PM
So by these calculations Goteki is a poor team?
I'm sorry, but I and those that have been behind me during races can beg to differ :D

eLhabib
29th October 2008, 09:05 PM
Personally, I don't think stats mean anything here. It's all down to each pilot's way of flying, personal preference. And that's really the way it should be - a perfect balance. I don't know yet if SL really pulled it off with HD (and I don't think Feisar can really be competitive in TT, but I might be wrong here), but it seems pretty damn close. Keeps the records from being dominated by one ship, and also gives everyone the chance to be flying their personal favorite ship and still be competitive. :+

Darkdrium777
29th October 2008, 10:27 PM
Yes I also agree the balance is really well done, I have yet to find a ship that is blatantly overpowered or underpowered in both Pulse and HD.

DeaFen0
29th October 2008, 11:14 PM
Yeah, for example, I LOVE how Goteki rips through the corners, and giving AG Systems top-props seems a bit cheap. They all seem pretty good, and if any ship was too good, I'd say it'd either be Icaras or Pirahna. I mean, with a bit of skill, you'd be a force to reckon with, right?

trentdf
30th October 2008, 01:37 AM
i don't think much judgement can be placed on the stats alone. If the numbers actually meant something, harimau would be pretty redundant as assegai has the same stats +1 speed. I think a ships traits are determined by a combination, i know i can turn a triakis better than an eg-x, and i think that has something to do with the acceleration. A triakis will maintain/slow down more in a corner, while an eg-x or goteki will keep trying to accelarate, and then push you wider, which makes it feel stiffer. But if its just a slight turn the eg-x will feel lighter. It all comes down to the ship you get used to, because you learn its traits regardless of what the stats tell you. Even tough triakis has one of the ****test handlings, i don't notice it unless in phantom, and i'm sure if i practiced more i would think it was as nimble as a feisar :)

eLhabib
30th October 2008, 09:29 AM
You're right, Triakis is actually quite forgiving in HD, due to - like you said - losing speed instantly when initiating a turn, hence making the turn easier. Piranha is the real brick this time around.
One thing that really makes a big difference to me in HD for the first time, is the width of the ships. For example, I really like the acceleration and turning behaviour of Goteki and Mirage, but I can't seem to get comfortable with them because they just seem so wide to me. I just can't fit them through spots I would navigate easily with my Assegai. I wonder if this was on purpose by the devs...

lunar
30th October 2008, 10:21 AM
Qirex in HD seems very long and fat, and it seems more of a squeeze to get it through places like the last left/right of Sol2. But I remember someone from SL saying all ships in Pulse actually had the same size "hitbox", despite appearances suggesting otherwise.

eLhabib
30th October 2008, 10:24 AM
You sure about that? because it sure doesn't feel like it!

lunar
30th October 2008, 10:54 AM
Not sure at all, at least with HD. I was surprised when I read that about Pulse. I tried a search for the post but didn`t find it. I agree it doesn`t feel like it.

Rubix42
30th October 2008, 01:43 PM
Racing using the internal cam makes me believe this. The screen size is always the same, and no matter what ship it is, you hit the wall at the same point.

I'm betting in external view, it's just that you want to believe what your eyes are telling you.

Amorbis
30th October 2008, 02:28 PM
They all seem pretty good, and if any ship was too good, I'd say it'd either be Icaras or Pirahna.

Whilst Icaras is super fast you do have to absorb almost every item to survive, especcially in a Phantom race. I suppose it all depends on how many times you hit the wall in a race and how many barrel rolls you do. Icaras is only 'too good' if you use it well. You could say the same for any ship really.

borell
30th October 2008, 03:26 PM
Not sure at all, at least with HD. I was surprised when I read that about Pulse. I tried a search for the post but didn`t find it.

I guess you were looking for this comment by Egg concerning Pulse:


This will probably shatter a few illusions, but all the craft fit into exactly the same box. It speeds up the collision calculations, I think, and it's one less thing to worry about when balancing all the ships.

trentdf
31st October 2008, 09:36 AM
i think all the ships are the same width, it's just the camera angle. On the smaller ships it seems to sit further back, while on the bigger ships it's right on top.

cdavaz
1st November 2008, 04:44 AM
What's all this talk about Assegai? Icarus is clearly the best. ;-)

Lance
1st November 2008, 05:15 AM
Icarus is dead; long live Icaras. :D

klax75
1st November 2008, 08:39 AM
I have to say (Shields face) I do like the look of Assegai, something about it looks cool to me the cockpit I like.

I do like all the craft except Mirage, I'm not a fan of the bug look.

Icaras I like too, I don't know why but it reminds me of 70's muscle car. If you saw it sitting there you know it's a beast without even moving.

Maschinengeist
2nd November 2008, 08:54 PM
I've never actually seen a race where more than two people used Assegai, actually...although they've been one of my favourite teams ever since my first two Wipeout titles, Pure and Pulse...so I have used them on occasion...