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AG-wolf
29th September 2008, 05:45 AM
Yeah, really. Don't get me wrong.. it's pretty, it's very pretty. but... it's still Pulse.

Hung out with TheFrostE and he showed it to me, and we did a lot of multiplayer... 30fps was a bit of a strain after seeing single player :P

admittedly I had a lot more fun with HD than Pulse... it may be because I was using a controller and not being forced to stare at such a tiny screen, but I did notice the handling was a little more responsive.. despite slight handling improvements over Pulse's garbage physics engine, though, I just cannot grasp the concept of how to maneuver around corners or on mag-strips, or why in god's name merely touching the wall STILL brings you to a dead stop... I mean, come on, I should NOT be doing 127kph in Phantom.

Ask travis, I wish I had a video of me playing... especially on a mag-strip.. Im lucky if I get halfway through a mag-strip area without fishtailing then careening left and right into each wall repeatedly. Not to mention I seemed to find every glitchy/quirky turn or drop-off or bad collission detection possible... I nearly got upside down multiple times, too (the upside-down thing being a staple of me playing ANY Wipeout after the tournament at Al's :P hahaha)

I don't know if I merely need more practice, or if XL, 64, and WO3 are truly my niche in the series.

I DO know that I won't own this game personally for at least two or three years because it's not enough to make me buy a PS3, and there's nothing else on the black monolith that interests me either (Super Stardust is cool, but I can live without it). It's a shame SL isn't third party... maybe HD would have seen an XBLA release, at which point I would at least be able to say I'd have bought it :P

On the plus side, at least HD is seeing a large audience... like Travis said, there are tons of people playing who have never touched a Wipeout game before... but that's both good and bad... they don't have anything to compare it to... they wouldn't understand why the weapon icons in the "2097" hud aren't the right colors. If they can enjoy it, that's what matters.

I saw a lot of names of people from the forums here on the fast times lists... but nobody here will see my name on the tables until the PS3 1) is less than 300 bucks, 2) has full backwards compatibility reinstated, and 3) has more than just Wipeout HD going for it in my eyes. I'm sticking with the old games, they just feel "right," you know? Maybe it's being able to wall scrape, maybe it's not slowing down to a crawl whenever your ship hits ANYthing whatsoever, maybe it's airbrakes that actually work, maybe it's having a sense of weight and momentum when you're barrelling down the track (or into someone)... Pure was tolerable, and at least had an awesome soundtrack... But I'll take Fusion over the latest 3 installments.

Also, why the hell is Auricom faster than Qirex? I asked the same damn thing when I first played Pure on the day it launched... it's almost as if both teams' stats are directly swapped.. Qirex is supposed to be the wicked fast heavyweight whose hard to control, and Auricom is supposed to be the more nimble one but a little slower.


And I unlocked the "Deadly Momentum" achievement for him while I was playing single player -_-

Time to go back to working on my last Wipeout XL video for youtube.

Chill
29th September 2008, 07:55 AM
I think in Wipeout XL and 3 the crafts were designed to spring off the sides of the tracks, as well as the sides of the track themselves... I guess people felt that the speeding up portion of it was unrealistic, and that they should slow down, but I still don't see why they shouldn't be able to bounce off the sides... even tires could be at the outside of each wing to help the craft bounce off the sides with very little speed lost...

As for the swapping of teams, I thought the same thing... and it confuses fans like us, but we have to accept that teams would evolve differently than previous sequals, which are in a different timeline... and I understand what you mean by the weight of the crafts and the hurling feeling of wind and such... I don't have any clue why their's hardly any wind resistance in the new installments, as "realistically", the wind would be incredibly loud at those speeds... Like the first Wipeout...

I believe sideshift as well an BRs are so unrealistic, they should not be their... but it's more about gameplay I suppose, and it's SL's choice...

I love Wipeout Videos... thanx in advance! ;)

Axel
29th September 2008, 08:14 AM
I think BR's are unrealistic but side shifts aren't. Who is to say there arn't 90 degrees thrusters on the side of the crafts? A nice addition I must say, a little bit strong but its ok.

I know where your coming from AG-wolf and I've seen some of your crazy youtube vids (XL flying vids are nuts!!!) and the wipeout of old is gone now. I know, spending that amount of amoney for a PS3 is not justified for 1 game only. Even I wouldn't do that.

But this game is going in the right direction after Pulse anyway. I tend to find the crafts floaty, but then pitch is not good im afraid. But I think what will make this game stand out for the majority is the multiplayer. We now have a wipeout that is more accessible to everybody than the two PSP games ever could be. The fact that we can all play with each other with such ease is a winner.

Dogg Thang
29th September 2008, 08:22 AM
I don't mind the team stat swapping at all. As Chill says, things will move and evolve over time.

This is still Pulse.

Yes. Yes, it is. It is exactly that. With fewer tracks and modes, though at a very nice price point. It inherits all of the strengths and the weaknesses of Pulse. I honestly don't understand those who say things like Pure and Pulse weren't great but this one rocks or even say this is just a step in the right direction. This is a step in no direction. It is Pulse, with tracks mostly from Pure. It has lovely fancy textures and, importantly, runs smoothly, which has to be commended. Really commended.

It is Pulse. But... we knew that, didn't we? Wasn't that always the plan? It seems a little odd to be disappointed with that at this point as that seemed to be the case from the day HD was announced.

Is a 60fps abridged remix of Pulse all that bad?

Flashback Jack
29th September 2008, 09:00 AM
I just cannot grasp the concept of how to maneuver around corners or on mag-strips, or why in god's name merely touching the wall STILL brings you to a dead stop...

Curious viewpoints and quite an interesting read, Wolf, but my how opinions differ.

Concerning Pulse, you answered your own question several paragraphs below the above quote (the part about needing practice). When I began playing Pulse, I too experienced the fishtailing and careening you described, and very badly too. Compared to Pure's float city, which admittedly after retraining myself on Pulse, I concluded that I was simply mad to have spent so much time hotlapping on Pure with its precarious handling -- Pulse is downright heavenly in the control department compared to it, but that's once you get over the initial learning curve of its "tighter" control scheme.

And those quirky and glitchy dropoffs which tend to launch your ship into the teleporter and through time? Those too tend to smooth themselves out with practice. I can't tell you how puzzling it was for me at first to grok the transition from track to magstrip on De Konstruct White just after the start/finish line -- the game appeared to hiccup at first during it and then came the ugly fishtailing you described, but after some dozens of hours of practice, the oddity disappeared and it no longer was a source of puzzlement to me.

My opinion is, that despite the number one annoyance of single race times being corrupted to hell due to a dumb bug in the European version (fixed in the U.S. version thankfully), Pulse to me is possibly the most brilliant and innovative iteration of the series yet, especially because of the dark and dystopic makeover. Mind you I haven't had a chance at HD, but until then I stand firm.

I share your sentiments about the PS3 regarding cost and a lack of interest in its games -- recently bought one just for HD -- but when I made that decision, I did so with the thought in mind that I have a rather sizeable collection of PS1 and PS2 games that could be played on it, so its future value to me was going to be a positive one. With that in mind, I paid for a used PS3 from Ebay, complete with the hardware-based Emotion Engine for full PS2 backward compatibility that you fretted about. Options unlimited. Can't help you in the cost department though; I still paid over three hundred bucks for my used one.

Regards,

- F

Boost
29th September 2008, 10:31 AM
I've never had the chance to play Pure or Pulse, so I'll just accept the comparisons already made in that area. There seems to be a wide range on whose favorite Wipeout game was in the series. For myself, it was always Wipeout and Wipeout XL. The third installment was polished up nicely, but it lost all it's feel to me. The gritty industrial future setting was replaced with a tidy technologically advanced society. I absolutely hated Fusion.

Looking at it on it's own, I think this is a fun game so far. It's definitely one of the reasons I had picked up the PS3. Like Flashback-Jack, I picked up the 60gb on Ebay to ensure I had hardware run backwards compatibility - mainly for the two original Wipeout games.

Comparing to to the series, I will even go as far to say that it's a good addition. I think the weapons effects are decent. A little flashy on a full track, but not as visually overpowering as I thought they would be. The ships have enough variance to break the monotony, yet aren't striving too hard to be radically different from team to team. This was probably one of my personal grievances with Fusion.

I could nitpick all day though. Certainly I can agree with allot of the points already brought up. I've noticed more difficulty carving deep into a corner using the airbrake. The joystick is doing more work. Speed class is a factor here of course, but pound for pound, I do miss the heavy airbrake approach. I think they could tone down the wall friction tad too. Not a ton, just a little. At least it not like hitting a brick wall as in the first Wipeout.

My chief complaint so far, is the pilot assist feature for races online. I cannot believe they put that in there without at least setting up as an optional feature when creating a race. If people want to race with their training wheels on, that's fine, but have that be a race option that all participants would adhere too for that event. I have absolutely no interest in racing people that have that feature turned on, but have no way out of it.

I guess the bottom line for me is that everything after Wipeout Xl was just a different game, to me at least. I don't ever expect to see anything else in this franchise that will ever really give me that same feel. But I've learned to just sort of accept it. For twenty bucks, I got a fun game that makes me smoke like a chimney and drink enough caffeinated liquids to kill a horse. That's all I asked for really.

just my .02

Jambo
29th September 2008, 10:58 AM
Hi all, thought I would put forward my thoughts. I have been playing WipEout from the very first release on PS1. Saying experience than the average gamer.

The original amazed me great graphics, great music, great physics, really tough. The slightest touch of the wall flipped the craft on the side almost!

2097, XL in America then came. It was stunning handled smoothly, felt fantastic and ramped down the difficulty slightly, allowing us to skim the walls. It was an epic game.

Wip3out was next and this was/is my favourite in the series. It took 2097 and made it, in my opinion, bigger, faster, better looking and had split-screen. It had a few problems mainly a menu screen that looked great but wasn't the most functional but I loved that game.

Fusion is something I cannot comment on. Didn't get on with it at all to be honest for me the worst in the series.

Pure to me was a breath of fresh air in the series, it reinvigorated it for me it was fast, fun, difficult it looked great. The handling was fun and zone mode looked amazing.

Pulse I didn't play as much of, I had my PSP stolen and have never got round to replacing, have only played it on a friends and did enjoy the small amount of time I had with it.

I started to download HD at about 4.24 or so on launch day. My opinion up to now is that it is fantastic. Graphically it is amazing and the frame rate is just amazing. As far as he Physics are concerned the game feels much tighter than the earlier games, it is certainly different but I have to say I really like it, the Analogue Stick allows me to be much more accurate with my steering and personally I feel the weight of the craft is much more obvious compared with the PSP games. The multiplayer is epic and it is a game I am recommending to one and all.

Yes it is different to the earlier "Trinity" but all games evolve (devolve for some) and I believe that this can be put in game terms that the craft are more advanced and handle tighter due to advances in technology (compare modern F1 cars to 80's and 70's never mind earlier!)

i think we can assume the original physics style is gone and that is sad but the new one is great as well. Just different.

Another way to say it:

"The King is dead, long live the King!"

Sorry about my rambling by the way!

Skvall
29th September 2008, 11:08 AM
I will never give up hope on having the PSX era physics back in wipeout. >< .. =P

G'Kyl
29th September 2008, 11:30 AM
It is Pulse. But... we knew that, didn't we? Wasn't that always the plan? It seems a little odd to be disappointed with that at this point as that seemed to be the case from the day HD was announced.

Well, sort of. Pulse was bigger, had nicely designed reverse tracks, more music, more tracks, more game modes and the same puny online mode (in terms of functionality).



Is a 60fps abridged remix of Pulse all that bad?

Hell, no! It's just not THAT good, either. ;)

Skvall
29th September 2008, 11:38 AM
For that price, yes it is. :]

But now I want to pay sony more to get mooore. xD (a fullprice game!)

GTAce
29th September 2008, 12:14 PM
I dont own a PSP, so this game is my first opportunity to play a full WipEout with good graphics since ages.
I cant complain about that. lol

Roz
29th September 2008, 12:33 PM
For that price, yes it is. :]

But now I want to pay sony more to get mooore. xD (a fullprice game!)

Oh you will! With DLC!

TONY-T
29th September 2008, 12:51 PM
Hi all, thought I would put forward my thoughts. I have been playing WipEout from the very first release on PS1. Saying experience than the average gamer.

The original amazed me great graphics, great music, great physics, really tough. The slightest touch of the wall flipped the craft on the side almost!

2097, XL in America then came. It was stunning handled smoothly, felt fantastic and ramped down the difficulty slightly, allowing us to skim the walls. It was an epic game.

Wip3out was next and this was/is my favourite in the series. It took 2097 and made it, in my opinion, bigger, faster, better looking and had split-screen. It had a few problems mainly a menu screen that looked great but wasn't the most functional but I loved that game.

Fusion is something I cannot comment on. Didn't get on with it at all to be honest for me the worst in the series.

Pure to me was a breath of fresh air in the series, it reinvigorated it for me it was fast, fun, difficult it looked great. The handling was fun and zone mode looked amazing.

Pulse I didn't play as much of, I had my PSP stolen and have never got round to replacing, have only played it on a friends and did enjoy the small amount of time I had with it.

I started to download HD at about 4.24 or so on launch day. My opinion up to now is that it is fantastic. Graphically it is amazing and the frame rate is just amazing. As far as he Physics are concerned the game feels much tighter than the earlier games, it is certainly different but I have to say I really like it, the Analogue Stick allows me to be much more accurate with my steering and personally I feel the weight of the craft is much more obvious compared with the PSP games. The multiplayer is epic and it is a game I am recommending to one and all.

Yes it is different to the earlier "Trinity" but all games evolve (devolve for some) and I believe that this can be put in game terms that the craft are more advanced and handle tighter due to advances in technology (compare modern F1 cars to 80's and 70's never mind earlier!)

i think we can assume the original physics style is gone and that is sad but the new one is great as well. Just different.

Another way to say it:

"The King is dead, long live the King!"

Sorry about my rambling by the way!

could not have said it better myself!

lunar
29th September 2008, 01:14 PM
The cars in SL`s F1 games handle just as much like Trinity Game ships as the ships in HD. Those car games do weight extremely well and you have to learn to manage it. You had to in Pure aswell, and that`s one reason why Pure with faster acceleration would have been a better handling system for this game, for me. Pure was "precarious" as Flash said - hence the fun, imo. Everything else is there in HD, and the game is full of great stuff and is fast and challenging, but as with Pulse it feels more like you`re maneuvering a graphical object than a possibly real world object that weighs several tons and is travelling at an insane speed. I would also like to see the possibility to fly sideways instead of pivoting all the time, and stronger brakes to compensate. It just feels better like that, to me. So I suppose I`m slightly disappointed about the handling, but what Dogg Thang said is true. If we are disappointed it can only be because of false expectations.

I think this is the right WipEout for the times. It is certainly a WipEout game and will hopefully keep the series going.

I thought Boost`s post was great, agree with most of that. :)

Shozovulnai
29th September 2008, 01:29 PM
WipEout has changed. It's no longer about old graphics, floaty gameplay and one-shot-kill plasmas. It's an endless series of online battles fought by experienced and newbies. WipEout - and its consumption of time - has become a well-oiled mainstream game.

WipEout has changed. ID-tagged pilots carry ID-tagged helmets, use ID-tagged ships. Instincts inside their bodies enhance and regulate their abilities. Steering control. Airbrake control. Weapon control. Barrel roll control. Everything is monitored and kept under control.

WipEout has changed. The age of useless autopilots has become the age of control... All in the name of averting the weapons from hitting the audience. And he who controls the race... controls worldwide rankings.

WipEout has changed. When the ship is under control... ...race becomes routine.

Amon
29th September 2008, 01:33 PM
Wow mate, that gave me chills :D

Skvall
29th September 2008, 01:54 PM
HAHAHA... thank you!

Axel
29th September 2008, 02:07 PM
Superb!!! lol

Sausehuhn
29th September 2008, 02:10 PM
Ahahahahah!!!

The sad thing about it: it's not too untrue.

Flashback Jack
29th September 2008, 02:28 PM
I would also like to see the possibility to fly sideways instead of pivoting all the time..

Like Pulse, I'm sure it's possible when you start to push the ships harder and harder around deep corners.

- F

lunar
29th September 2008, 02:40 PM
I don`t think I explained myself very well, Flash. It`s not something you learn to do or make the ship do - in the older games it`s something the ship does whether you like it or not and you have to control it, ride it, whatever, to get round the course. Flying a Qirex in the early games is the best example. I guess you would call it momentum, inertia, weight, that sort of thing. Pulse and HD have very little of it, to me. Obviously you can fly sideways in Pulse, simply by double tapping the airbrake, but it`s not the same thing. ;)

Sausehuhn
29th September 2008, 02:43 PM
You mean the drifting of the ship (mainly its back), eh?
I miss that too.
But that's a characteristic of the old WO games and - sadly - most likely gone forever.

neochrome
29th September 2008, 02:58 PM
Played it (WOHD) for the first time last night - how can anybody complain, seriously its cheap (although I'd have paid 40 for a boxed verison) and plays like a dream.

By far the best looking WO ever and it handles like it should (feels like 2097 to me) I just wish I had a rumble controller now instead of this lightweight tat that came with my PS3 (PS3 name neochrome).

AG Systems, lets be friends 8)

AG-wolf
29th September 2008, 02:59 PM
Lunar is on the same page as me. He knows exactly what I'm talking about...

And I just went to try and get one of my XL videos to try and show an example... but I realized something... the weight/momentum/etc is not visible, you only feel it.

Maybe the new WO crew at SL only watched videos of the old games and never played them? or at least didn't play them thoroughly.

Axel
29th September 2008, 03:04 PM
Hmmm you can do that in HD. AB plus anolgue stick and good speed. Trust me it's possible. But it's not easily done. Best ship to use is Assagai.

Dogg Thang
29th September 2008, 03:05 PM
I know exactly what Lunar is talking about and I think it's down to something quite fundamental to the Pure/Pulse system and has now carried into HD.

With the older games, it felt like I was steering one whole mass. With Pure/Pulse/HD, I am steering a single small point at the front of the craft and what we see as the craft itself acts more like a tail, swinging around that point. I have never quite figured out if it's the physics and that's how it actually works, or if it's actually about how the camera works, which now seems to be following that single point.

Either way, it's now a well-established part of the modern WO games.

dobyblue
29th September 2008, 03:06 PM
Like Flashback-Jack, I picked up the 60gb on Ebay to ensure I had hardware run backwards compatibility - mainly for the two original Wipeout games.

The original two WipEout games play with no issues on any version of the PS3, as is the case with just about all PSOne titles.

No difference in how they're run from the 60GB to the 80GB to the 40GB.

Flashback Jack
29th September 2008, 03:35 PM
For most games there mightn't be much of a compatibility difference among the various PS3 versions, but PS2 game compatibility is pretty much absolute on Emotion-enabled consoles, and PS1 game compatibility is as absolute as a PS2's ability to emulate them.


Obviously you can fly sideways in Pulse, simply by double tapping the airbrake, but it`s not the same thing. ;)

I understood your explanation. I meant you could get ships to fly sideways in Pulse in deep bends, but you basically had to lean on the airbrakes and turn well in advance to make it happen. Not quite the same effect as it effortlessly occurs in earlier Wipeout versions, but there's still a much tamer strain of it in Pulse.

- F

lunar
29th September 2008, 03:49 PM
thanks, Flash, I see now. :+

Max, Wolfie, Dogg Thang, I think you all did a better job than me of turning an illusory feeling into language :)

Medusa is still the winner though: "turning is akin to having a dogsled hitched up to nitrous-oxide-fed dogs, except there is a moose carcass dragging along on either side of the dogsled.." :D

Rapier Racer
29th September 2008, 05:38 PM
Hmmm need to get a few thoughts out here.


Ask travis, I wish I had a video of me playing... especially on a mag-strip.. Im lucky if I get halfway through a mag-strip area without fishtailing then careening left and right into each wall repeatedly.

I agree that was a problem for me in Pulse at the beginning but I find the HD mag strips are 100% easier to fly on, its one of the first thoughts I had after racing Metropia. What control system are you using?


I don't know if I merely need more practice, or if XL, 64, and WO3 are truly my niche in the series.

The former.


It's a shame SL isn't third party... maybe HD would have seen an XBLA release

Yeah, no thanks, there are enough third party games out there that fail to harness the PS3s power properly thanks to the 360.


But I'll take Fusion over the latest 3 instalments.

Through the floor went your credibility, I have to ask, just in case you made an error, ARE YOU SERIOUS?? What makes Fusion better than Pure or HD? The million bugs? The death of classic teams? The stupid looking pilots? The utter shite physics? Im in no way Pulses biggest fan but to state that it has garbage physics then say youd rather have Fusion is almost laughable.


This is still Pulse.

Yes. Yes, it is. It is exactly that. With fewer tracks and modes, though at a very nice price point. It inherits all of the strengths and the weaknesses of Pulse.

No. No it's not Pulse had a shite online mode it was terrible at the best of times, I don't see where HD has inherited the huge inaccuracies (one of the weaknesses you surly speak of) that Pulses online brought to the table. HD plays wonderfully online, standards above anything Pulse could ever achieve.

Look at the weaponry also, shifted more back in the Pure direction in that the Plasma is actually worth a **** once more.

Further, Its 80% Wipeout Pure in terms of tracks with handling thats not quite Pure or Pulse, if anything its a good hybrid of the 2 games and not Wipeout Pulse HD.

The only thing I do not like thus far is Metropia, why did you have to include that? Pure has so many better tracks.

Uridium
29th September 2008, 05:55 PM
I will never give up hope on having the PSX era physics back in wipeout. >< .. =P

Maybe as DLC...one feature can be to unlock XL physics!.
After unlocking just the XL HUD I have to say that I was amazed at the difference this makes... The nostalgia was there :)

Long live XL!

HydrogLox
29th September 2008, 06:47 PM
Maybe the new WO crew at SL only watched videos of the old games and never played them? or at least didn't play them thoroughly.
Chris Roberts worked on Wipeout 2097, Quantum Redshift and Wipeout HD; Martin Linklater worked on Quantum Redshift, Wipeout Pure, Wipeout HD (and owns Wipeout (PC/Sega/PS), Wipeout 64, Wipeout 3) - so I doubt that was a factor.


maybe HD would have seen an XBLA release, at which point I would at least be able to say I'd have bought it
Truth is that nobody can complain about it unless they purchased the original XBox AND Quantum Redshift (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/q/quantumredshift/default.htm) - that was the time to show support. As it is right now, Quantum Redshift is on the XBox 360 Backward Compatibility List (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/backwardcompatibilitygameslist.htm) and it should be available used for less than Wipeout HD. But it's too late to change anything.


I don't know if I merely need more practice, or if XL, 64, and WO3 are truly my niche in the series.


2097, XL in America then came. It was stunning handled smoothly, felt fantastic and ramped down the difficulty slightly, allowing us to skim the walls. It was an epic game. Wip3out was next and this was/is my favourite in the series.

Good thing that those Wipeout 2097/XL (PS) and wipEout 3 discs still work on any PS/PS2/PS3 so you can still get your fix. And I'm all for Sony making them available as PSOne Classics on PSN for PS3(PSP).

Wipeout HD is the latest addition/variation in the Wipeout family. It is clear that it isn't your favourite - however it is currently the only choice for console+on-line wipEout. You are entitled to your preferences however there comes a point where it starts to sound like "I don't want to adapt to a new control scheme/new handling/new look". So because "Wipeout" generates certain expectations for you personally, you feel disappointed. Once you get beyond that, is there no merit to this fantasy/futuristic anti-gravity combat racer on the PS3?

Jambo
29th September 2008, 07:05 PM
Just in case you didn't read my post fully I thought it made it clear that I absolutely love HD . Its a different game but that is fine with me as well!

i will repeast again:

The King is dead. Long Live the King!

Crob
29th September 2008, 07:08 PM
...purchased the original XBox AND Quantum Redshift - that was the time to show support.

Yeah, and then I'd be driving round the Mediterranean in a ferrari-boat now instead of getting the train to work! 8)

Roz
29th September 2008, 07:30 PM
WipEout has changed. It's no longer about old graphics, floaty gameplay and one-shot-kill plasmas. It's an endless series of online battles fought by experienced and newbies. WipEout - and its consumption of time - has become a well-oiled mainstream game.

WipEout has changed. ID-tagged pilots carry ID-tagged helmets, use ID-tagged ships. Instincts inside their bodies enhance and regulate their abilities. Steering control. Airbrake control. Weapon control. Barrel roll control. Everything is monitored and kept under control.

WipEout has changed. The age of useless autopilots has become the age of control... All in the name of averting the weapons from hitting the audience. And he who controls the race... controls worldwide rankings.

WipEout has changed. When the ship is under control... ...race becomes routine.

Nice adaptation :) (although I think most of the users didn't get the MGS4 reference)

Anyway, about the old vs. new school theme... It's just like fighting games. Street Fighter II was the **** as many of you know, and many people love it to death. When SFIII came out it had very different mechanics from SFII and many people loathed it. Now SFIV is coming out and people are comparing it to SFIII...

My point is, old games never die and new games just really need to move forward. Like the fighting game comunity, the WO comunity is pretty hardcore and dedicated long hours to WO, 2097 and W3 so when big gameplay altering changes come, it's hell on earth. Well, WipEout has to evolve and adapt to the market and age it's in. WipEout will never be the same as the 1st three and I hope for that. I love the oldies but really, games have to evolve and introduce new concepts so that they can survive in the turbulent market.

That being said, I think we're lucky that SL has such a talented bunch of people working in WO. I've seen old games try to adapt to this new age of gaming that failed miserably and died. If Pure, Pulse and HD are an example of what SL can do for the future then our beloved WipEout will last long years.

Sure, it may not be 2097 nor W3 but damn, SL sure works hard to cater the hardcore fans and the new ones. And with success in my opinion :)

Rock on!

Nocturnal
29th September 2008, 07:58 PM
Well it has been ages since I played WipeOut. My first encounter with WipeOut 2097 was on the PSX, since then I missed out on WipeOut Fusion (grateful due the bad reviews it got) for the PS2 and WipeOut 3 which was also released on PSX, too.

It really makes me sad, their is no ultimate craft to achieve. But I guess the trophies make up for the missing bonus. I'm also very displeased the Phantom class has become nothing but a slow walking duck, in WipeOut 2097 (XL) it was the best in each category. Now it's only about Speed > and Shields, but I fail to see it's Speed benefits. I find other crafts to be much faster than the Phantom, I can also see the negatively exaggerated speed reduction if you touch the borders in a curve. *GETS ON MY NERVES, EACH TIME*

Although I can understand the many unrealistic aspects of the game which are met by a let believe reality a major let down for the game. Especially if you salt it to much with that ingredient.

As for the music album some tracks are nice and some should have been tuned a bit. The electro genre has come a long way since 1996, so I can't understand why the missing balance is underachieved. After a while they got on my nerves with the increased difficulty, so I turned them off.

It should have been released way back or maybe hosted a beta, just to scratch the surface for polishing the game. I found so many inconsistencies, well I will eventually try to write something. Exploiting in a non harmful way the inner logic of the game.

HydrogLox
29th September 2008, 08:50 PM
Just in case you didn't read my post fully I thought it made it clear that I absolutely love HD . Its a different game but that is fine with me as well!
Sorry for quoting you out of context. It's just that some of the general, more vocal negative focus on what Wipeout HD isn't, rather than on what's good about it, can get a bit tiresome and unjustifiably drowns out Wipeout HD's positive accomplishments.


Yeah, and then I'd be driving round the Mediterranean in a ferrari-boat now instead of getting the train to work! 8)
Hmmm ... a case of "the mountain coming to mohammed"? (Climate may turn UK Mediterranean (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4091068.stm)) I think you're responsible for that boat yourself though. :)

Lance
29th September 2008, 09:06 PM
A Ferrari, Chris? How big a share of CM did you own!??! ;) :D Man, I'm in the wrong line of business [retired and unemployed :D :D ].

G'Kyl
29th September 2008, 09:15 PM
so when big gameplay altering changes come, it's hell on earth.

If Pure, Pulse and HD are an example of what SL can do for the future then our beloved WipEout will last long years.

SL sure works hard to cater the hardcore fans and the new ones. And with success in my opinion

Nicely put. And so true. :)

Chill
30th September 2008, 01:27 AM
I think BR's are unrealistic but side shifts aren't. Who is to say there arn't 90 degrees thrusters on the side of the crafts? A nice addition I must say, a little bit strong but its ok.


Okay that is true... They should start making the thruster's wind visible... ;)

Here's my little opinion on the series:

First I didn't like Wipeout too much as I was really young, and found it very hard and intimidating... and I lost a lot and it felt harsh cause it was so much work for me, but I started to get into it a lot more as I got older... then when Wipeout XL was out (which I didn't know about) I continued replaying the original wondering if they would ever make a new one, as since I had learned to get better, I didn't want this series to ever die out...

The I found out they had already made sequals, and bought the latest Wipeout 3, skipping XL to be up-to-date... So this is why I didn't fall in love with XL's physics, cause it was Wipeout 3 that had these physics for me first, so that's the game I loved and replayed over and over... My favorite of the series... Literally went coockoo for the series at that point, and even found out about Wipeoutzone...

I then got extremely excited about Fusion, as it had one of the best dark massive styles I've ever experienced, but then when the game and the physics actually came, my high hopes that it's advertisement had given me were crushed... this game would have been so great if it remained with the original type of physics...

After a long, long wait that seemed, cause Wipeour Fusion's Zone mode was the only thing I got into and was beginning to wear off, came Wipeout Pure. BAM!!! I loved it!! It was so open and aggressive, and bright like the sun had just come out after several years of not being revieled, with a huge burst of energy to burn off... I just didn't see the realism in the BR (nor did I have any idea what side-shift was until way late in my playing process) It was also around this time that I started buying previous sequals of the series (XL, 2097, re-bought original as the first one didn't exist, a new copy of WO3, WO3 SE, a second copy on it's way, and two neGcons)... I still play all of these, as I'm getting a link cord to hook up with some PSX's and will be competing with a friend and juggin' down that Red Bull... ;)

Wipeout Pulse then came out... Didn't have as strong of an appeal to me as Wipeout Pure, but I bought it, and didn't really get into it until not too long before Wipeout HD's release date at all... and after getting my own music on their (I feel the in-game music literally sucked, the tracks had little to no fulfillment to them what-so-ever), I'm starting to actually fall in love with it... Didn't like the physics at first either, but it takes getting use to to like... Love the fact that zone mode is available on every track... that's the mode in this game that brings on the good practice for racing... just starting to play online mode, for me it's a huge impact in the series, as I love online games...

I think Wipeout HD is going to be great on a large HDTV, as if it is pulse and pure, just with great graphics, better sound with personal music preference, and it's zone mode, better online... man I'm baggin' this shizznit!!! I'm buyin' a PS3 for it!!

All ya'll old type gamers need to just start a lot of practice on pulse until you start reaching up to Phantom... then it kicks in that this game is actually badass... It took me a few years to find out... And now I will enjoy all the new features because of it...

My thought is how possible would it be to take a PS1 title, sell it on PSN ALONG with Online play and personal music... cause I would play those online like a crack-addict!!! Even with the original graphics!!! Because I too love the leaning effect of the craft's momentum throughout the series, and feel that it should remain alive to some extent...

If not, I think Wipeout, considering it re-made the mix of Wipeout Pure and Pulse (with slightly different effects-off this topic)... Why not make a Wipeout XL/3 next... even a new version of the original one... and if this weight thing comes back... I want a negcon please... NeGcons need not die either!!! At least not for these sequals...

taqili
30th September 2008, 06:56 AM
oh man Chill, you have 1337 posts =)

on topic, HD is how it is and I don't see why we need to return to 2097 or w3o physics. I miss a ton of the tracks from w3o, pretty much any but Sampa Run, but I don't want to play the same game with new tracks and graphics. we must separate ourselves from the sports games; anything less would be uncivilised.

AG-wolf
30th September 2008, 05:26 PM
Rapier Racer: I dunno.. I admit Fusion is nowhere near as good as the classics, and it does have a large share of glitches and problems... but I just had more fun playing Fusion than I did with Pulse. HD was more entertaining doing 2-player at least.

As far as control, I'm using close to default, with airbrakes on R1 and L1 instead of the R2/L2 triggers... the trigger setup works on Saturn, Dreamcast, Xbox, GameCube, and 360, but something about those PS3 triggers doesn't work for me.

as far as third party games not "harnessing the ps3s power," that's not the 360's fault ;) Xbox 1 had to struggle with multi-platform games that didn't harness its full potential because they had to be dumbed down for the PS2... maybe this is just payback hahaha


HydrogLox: Even if one of them worked on XL and the other owns half the old games, it didn't make much difference. And working on Quantum Redshift doesn't lend TOO much credibility, because QR has the same problem Pure, Pulse, and HD have with at least one aspect of the physics engine; you let off the accellerator and immediately slow-down as if you romped on the brakes.

Also, I was one of the people who bought an original Xbox and Quantum Redshift. As a matter of fact, QR was one of the first games I picked up for it, and I didn't even KNOW it had any connection to Wipeout.



Maybe I just need to give Pulse and HD more time. I tried playing Pulse last night on Metropia and Moa Therma (the two HD tracks) and had all the exact same difficulties with them on Pulse that I was having in the past and that I encountered in HD. I really don't know what to say because Hydrog is right, due to the series' previous installments, I've got a predetermined set of personal expectations, and Pure, Pulse and HD have all three failed to meet them...as a matter of fact, other than the three games being more new Wipeout entries, the only thing that really satisfied me about any of them was the Pure soundtrack... loved 80% of it as much as the original Wipeout soundtrack (minus Transvaal). Pure's gameplay was a big change from the older titles but I could still adapt to it and enjoy it... Pulse has pretty much killed my interest in any future Wipeout titles unless I can manage to play it "properly" I suppose.

Chill
30th September 2008, 07:43 PM
oh man Chill, you have 1337 posts =)

on topic, HD is how it is and I don't see why we need to return to 2097 or w3o physics. I miss a ton of the tracks from w3o, pretty much any but Sampa Run, but I don't want to play the same game with new tracks and graphics. we must separate ourselves from the sports games; anything less would be uncivilised.

I have no idea what 1337 is to mean, but it's no longer their anyway... ;)

I was saying to release the original games (Original Wipeout, 2097 and 3 SE) only with online capability and custom music added if on PS3... and if on PS3 on this is done, thiey should have NeGcons as well, as it would be for the more hardcore fans so that they aren't unhappy... any other additions to the games are welcomed...

Yeah A-G Wolf, I had been stuck in the same spot as you for a long time and understand where you're coming from... even Fusion became enjoyeable, but that's only cause you pushed yourself... if you push yourself to play pulse, I'm almost certain it's outcome will be more than Fusion's...

Dogg Thang
30th September 2008, 10:20 PM
Well I hated Fusion with a passion. And I think Pulse was a far better game for the most part. And yet I'd rather tear my own face off than play Pulse again, due to the appaling lack of quality control.

I'm quite enjoying HD in that I can hear the sounds (is it the same sound guy? I imagine they would have had to talk him down from a ledge after what happened in Pulse) and, even better, I can spend more time playing than waiting for the system to restart after a crash. Of course with any other series, I'd take that as standard but I've come to think of it as a pleasant bonus with HD.

But generally on your point, AG-Wolf, even with the improvements and tweaks that happened from Pure to Pulse and even with the graphics polish for HD - Pure and Pulse are probably the two most similar games in the WO series, and HD is simply abridged Pulse with a shine. So I'd say if Pure didn't grab you at all, it was going to be unlikely that Pulse would. And if Pulse didn't, there wouldn't be a chance in hell that HD would.

Though, personally, had the quality control been there, I'd have said that Pulse improved upon Pure in most areas. I guess it just moved even further away from where you wanted the series to go.

Axel
1st October 2008, 12:10 AM
It's a shame really but I hated both Fusion and mildly liked PULSE. PURE was fun but not floaty enough. I'm absolutely loving HD because of the fact that I can use a proper controller and the physics are closer to the trinity Wipeouts than both the psp games.

My only grip with HD is the BR's as I can't be arsed to execute them to get a good TT record. So TT is out of the bag for me. Where i'll truly enjoy the game will be on multi-player. That alone is enough to get WOHD.

Chill
1st October 2008, 01:07 AM
I liked pure, then thought Pulse was just a hunk of nothingness until I learned how to get my music on it, enjoy it's pic taking feature, make a few skins and show off a bit with online... playing my own music within zone mode of all the tracks does definately seem like it's worth it now... I think I like it more for it's capabilities rather than it's physics engine, but it's not too far off from Pure and still floats, so I can deal with it fine... Just took practice and now I like the game (I think it's A LOT better than Fusion, just not better than the others in the series...)

sp1cychick3n
1st October 2008, 02:45 AM
I could personally care less about that fact that a lot of stuff in this game is recycled from Pulse. It's a new Wipeout and seriously, that is more than enough to get me excited.

And regarding the controls, I think it's a matter of practice. The same thing happened to me when I first played HD but now I seem to do fine.


I have no idea what 1337 is to mean, but it's no longer their anyway... ;)



1337 means "Leet," which (I guess you could say) is slang for "Elite."

Nunalho
1st October 2008, 03:23 AM
There isnt one single Wipeout game i dont like...and HD is a blast like 2097 was to me.

I also loved Fusion, Pure and Pulse for the most part.

Syntek
1st October 2008, 05:00 AM
pure was okay, but whenever pulse came out, i ditched pure.

Chill
1st October 2008, 05:08 AM
1337 means "Leet," which (I guess you could say) is slang for "Elite."

Oh... well I've always been "Elite" at the game of life... hahaha!! ;)

Yeah I think you just need to play pulse more and get use to the controls and handling to like it... I use to not like pulse for the most of the time I had it, had played all sequals previous to Pulse, than got a shizznit load of practice over just the last month and now think the game's radical... not more proof I can supply...

G'Kyl
1st October 2008, 05:55 AM
It's a shame really but I hated both Fusion and mildly liked PULSE. PURE was fun but not floaty enough. I'm absolutely loving HD because of the fact that I can use a proper controller and the physics are closer to the trinity Wipeouts than both the psp games.

The way I see it it's the other way around. To me Pure feels most floaty within the "modern trinity", whereas there was slightly less floatiness in Pulse and there seems to be even less in HD.
Which is not to say that I don't like the latter. As a matter of fact, I thought Pulse, for all its tiny shortcomings, stands alongside 2097 as one of the best WipEouts.

Ben

lunar
1st October 2008, 09:59 AM
I agree with you, Ben, regarding Pure anyway. It is the most connected to the Trinity in its handling, imo ;)

I think Chill makes a great point to me about playing and practicing the games to appreciate them. Isn`t Wipeout supposed to be like that, maybe? You don`t pick up and play original Wipeout and enjoy it straight away, you have to suffer! HD is making me burn the candle at both ends (the sign of me liking a game unfortunately). Now I am "getting" the handling a bit more so that I can play smoother and get hooked on it, and at the same time it`s the first wipeout my kids have been able to play, I think it`s clever stuff. :)