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View Full Version : WipeOut Pure is better than WipeOut Pulse



master bruce
16th April 2008, 05:26 PM
I sold my Pulse about a month ago after getting all the golds on easy. Pulse was my first foray into WipeOut and it was an intense learning curve (which I posted about). But at the time I sold it, I was kinda getting tired of Pulse, it just stopped being very fun for me. While I liked Pulse, it wasn't as great a racing game as I had thought it would be based on all the hype.

Fast forward to yesterday, I needed my futuristic racing craving and bought the Playstation store version of Wipeout Pure. And within the first few minutes, I was WOWed. No wonder this version had the higher metacritic score, not only was it revolutionary at the time it came out, I think it did several things much better than its sequel.

Here are what Pure does better than Pulse:

1. Levels: the levels in Pure are so much more beautiful and majestic. There was almost not a single level that I was really impressed with in Pulse, but so far, many of the levels in Pure had me dropping my jaw at the beautiful scenery and the great feel of racing through them. The levels in Pure are much more creative and diverse. Whereas the Pulse levels felt gritty, the Pure levels felt futuristic and innovative.

2. Graphics: Ok, maybe my vision is bad, but I always had tired eyes after playing a session of Pulse. The levels were really dark so it was hard to make out turns in certain areas and I had to play in very dark places. Pure is much brighter overall, and I have no eyestrain playing it. It is a pleasure and this little minor detail makes the experience infinitely more enjoyable.

Now, Pulse does some things better as well:

1. Honeycomb progression - very cool and almost introduces a strategic element

2. menus and structure - obviously they had timp to revamp the system

3. Eliminator - spices up the experience

4. better graphics - not a huge difference, but still an improvement

This is obviously just my opinion as the experience is subjective...but I was genuinely surprised with how much I enjoyed Pure. It was kinda the experience I had hoped to have with Pulse but never quite got.

supersocks
16th April 2008, 06:04 PM
I agree, definitely. But what you mean by putting graphics in both's advantage?

Ash-Omen
16th April 2008, 06:19 PM
i agree with the level design, pures tracks definatly look alot more inspired compared too pulse and the tracks on pure are alot more diverse.

my only snag with pure is the AI, they can be very anoying forming weapons out of nowhere and constantly overtaking on the last straight but this could be a good thing i suppose cos on pulse i find the AI a pushover even on phantom and hard.

but overall best game is pulse imo. cos u have online play custom soundtracks better graphics and skin editor.

Rapier Racer
16th April 2008, 06:51 PM
my only snag with pure is the AI, they can be very anoying forming weapons out of nowhere and constantly overtaking on the last straight

What! No way lol!! Pures AI is so poor compared to Pulse, if they are close enough to you to overtake you on the final straight you need much more practice.

JABBERJAW
16th April 2008, 07:03 PM
lolll

Yeah, you can get away easier in pure, unless you cannot get near the front right away, which might make it harder(once again the barrel roll bug)

Ash-Omen
16th April 2008, 07:21 PM
What! No way lol!! Pures AI is so poor compared to Pulse, if they are close enough to you to overtake you on the final straight you need much more practice.

yeah they overtake on final straight because they spawn weapons out of nowere lol. but pure imo is harder the bot in 1st on pure allways puts up a bigger fight than the rest. and on pure i notice when u get a boost start they all fly past somehow

TearsToShreds
16th April 2008, 09:46 PM
All the competing ships seem to be going at an unusually high speed in the first lap. Think it's obviously meant to be that way, to make it more challenging to get first.

Darkdrium777
16th April 2008, 11:42 PM
Indeed. There are some things that the AI does that would be impossible for us human player to accomplish, in both games.
That being said, the game is still beatable. Because the AI passed that first lap stops being as good, except for the first few ships... (I think in PulsE it's the first ship and the second ship that are better than the rest, while in PurE it was only the first).

sakerbax
17th April 2008, 12:58 AM
I can't really understand why you selled pulse.
Wasn't there something else you could sell? Pulse was also my first WO i've already bought pure (and in my opinion it's worse than pulse maybe i got used to mag strips?) but i can't see myself selling pulse, if not for anything else, it's probably the only psp game worth playing online,

master bruce
17th April 2008, 01:32 AM
I could never connect online....so it didn't have alot of replayability for me

also, the eyestrain Pulse gave me was really big deterrent for me

Skvall
17th April 2008, 10:51 AM
I havent played much Pure. It feels like driving on ice compared to Pulses flying and I didnt like that at all, so I play Pulse instead.

Pulse > Pure because of that imo. Maybe Pure is better in other areas but that doesnt matter if the control of the ship is bad.

Rapier Racer
17th April 2008, 11:54 AM
You want to talk about flying on ice thats what you get when you fly over a Mag-Strip not a fan of those things period.

Pure was so close to perfection! If only it had handling and air brakes a little more like Pulse that would have been super sweet.

blixabargeld
17th April 2008, 01:02 PM
I feel that pulse is more "competitive" and more improved on beating the opponents in every way possible, while pure is imho based more on driving experience..
Ships in pulse are easier to handle, nor the challenge level is high enough for expert players.
On the other hand there's not a good single player mode in pure, all you have to do is collect golds single-race-after-single-race, and that could be boring for someone. (not for me ;))
Anyway, they're quite different to make useful to own both, they really feel "wipeout" to me in different ways.

Skvall
17th April 2008, 02:03 PM
I think I will force myself to get used to the handling. Many people seem to like the game, I want to see why.

master bruce
17th April 2008, 05:27 PM
Skvall, I agree with you that Pulse has better handling...but I find the level designs of Pure to be much better and more fun.

blixabargeld
17th April 2008, 07:02 PM
I think that pure has better handling...

omega329
17th April 2008, 07:23 PM
IMHO pulse's handling suited zone mode better than pure's, however, for racing I prefer pure's

Sausehuhn
17th April 2008, 08:20 PM
After playing Pulse, Pure feels very strange, that's true.
But play it an hour and you get used to it. Actually it feels more WipEout than Pulse does because the ships slide more.
Dead-stops and roof-grinding are a bit annoying, though. But you can avoid the roof thingie (most of the time) if you know the tracks.
Overall, Pulse's handling is too direct to me and sideshifting shifts too much and turning turns to much (like if you want to correct your line you directly turn 30°).
Pure's far better at this point to me.

Then (in my eyes) Pulse never reached Pure's variety of track layouts and environments. The tracks look very similar in Pulse and don't seem that unique. There are exceptions like Vertica and Tech de Ra, but most of the tracks look rather uninspired to me (compared to Pure).

Pulse is a really good game, but, at least for me, it never lived up to the expectations. There was too much hype probably.

I just put Pure in my UMD drive again and I'm enjoying it very much (love the menus). If the game just had difficulty levels and online play.

Frances_Penfold
17th April 2008, 10:33 PM
I love Wipeout Pure. A lot.

But two huge things Pulse has over Pure:
1. Online multiplayer
2. Online leaderboards

So as much as I love Wipeout Pure, it's hard to motivate myself to go back and really dig deep again.

Though if members of this community returned to Pure, including Time Trialing and online play via Kai, I would seriously consider it :)

Chrono
17th April 2008, 10:36 PM
Not me. Pulse is for me.

For me it's all about the way the game feels, or ship control. I have fun in Pure, but Pulse is the one I get serious about.

Note: This poster finished last in Wipeout Pure at the 2008 European Wipeout Convention.

P52Smith
19th April 2008, 04:43 PM
The one major thing I like about Pure that isn't in Pulse is that you can chose a 'custom race' single race or time trial and do all of them one after the other by selecting 'next track' and not reloading the main menu and re-choosing half your options for that race/series of races.

nakamura
20th April 2008, 12:04 AM
For me Pulse was a very hollow experience with the worst circuits of the series and mainly dull graphics. Zone mode in Pulse works very well tho. But the normal music is poor, Pures standard music is pretty good.
Pure has great circuits, and enhanced more buy awesome downloadable content, the extras are superb!
I also didnt like Pulse handling, like another said too direct and lacked the floaty feeling that Wipeout should have.
I dont feel Pulse is awful, but it left me feeling cold and disappointed just like Wipeout 3 did.

blixabargeld
20th April 2008, 06:01 PM
you can put your music in pulse=even the music of other wipeout titles!
In multiplayer matches pulse is really, really balanced and funny..
I know that i change my mind quite often, but now I really like tracks and track-design.
The only "bad things" are tips in loading screens (EA style:mad:) and the difficulty, which is a bit too easy; but i know it's a good thing for noobs

lunar
20th April 2008, 09:00 PM
I`m definitely in the Pure is better camp. I`m not really disappointed with Pulse and it improves a lot of things that were wrong with Pure, such as weapon balance in multiplayer, and would win in any lists of what the games have to offer. The ships in Pulse are beautiful and the graphical standard is great as ever, and in the end I don`t know why, but Pure just pushes my excitement buttons a lot more. It`s probably the tracks and the handling, and Max`s post (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showpost.php?p=86731&postcount=18) sums it up for me.

P52Smith
23rd April 2008, 07:51 PM
Talking about the tips:

The online multiplayer 'tip' says you can race in single race, tournament or in "exciting eliminator events"

Eliminator????? What a load of rubbish!!

Would be nice though, just virtually impossible at 25 kills one on one. It can take me over 25 minutes and 70 laps against the AI on hard, wave goodbye to your battery power if that happened online! I reckon online, one on one, eliminator could take at least 1 hour on phantom, less at the slower speed classes but easily 1 hour at phantom and maybe even rapier.




For me, one good thing about Pure was vector. Yes I know it is incredibally slow but it was just what I need at 1am after 2 hours of playing already and my reactions are slowing. Venom is alright but still not slow enough when you can't see because your eyes are half closed.

Hopefully, the next WipEout will see the return of vector, and maybe a sixth speed class?

Rapier Racer
23rd April 2008, 09:13 PM
I guess they had plans to make eliminator online but ran out of time, removing that loading screen would probably have cost more time which they didn't seem to have.

blixabargeld
24th April 2008, 07:44 AM
eliminator is a funny divertissement tough

Darkdrium777
24th April 2008, 06:23 PM
For me, one good thing about Pure was vector. Yes I know it is incredibally slow but it was just what I need at 1am after 2 hours of playing already and my reactions are slowing. Venom is alright but still not slow enough when you can't see because your eyes are half closed.

I think that when your eyes instinctively close, it's time to put down the PSP and have some sleep. ;)

phl0w
24th April 2008, 07:07 PM
So now I just stopped playing it - like a month ago - it's jut not fun. It's no secret that I had a lot of criticism for Pulse, but I really gave it a try and played it very long, competed online, in challenges and wanted to like the game. But there's something about it, maybe what Sausehuhn described, that makes me read its box saying "wipEout", but unfortunately I can't really feel it and decided to stop wasting my time on it. So no Pulse for me anymore.

blixabargeld
24th April 2008, 07:15 PM
let's wait a couple of years and also pulse will be considered a classic.. It's just a matter of time

master bruce
28th April 2008, 09:14 PM
been playing Pulse using 333mh cpu power...what a difference! it made my driving better 8)

sp1cychick3n
30th April 2008, 09:12 PM
How exactly did you do that?

On the topic, I believe both of them are amazing.

Darkdrium777
30th April 2008, 10:40 PM
By using custom firmware, you can modify in what is called the Recovery mode the CPU speed used in game and on the XMB. You can leave it to default, which will then use the CPU power the game was coded for, or force it to 333Mhz, using more battery but enabling a much smoother experience on games that were designed only to use the first 266Mhz of the CPU.
I've tried PurE that way, and it does feel a lot smoother, although the frames are not locked on the game and you can therefore see some image tearing at some times (Especially in first person view) because the processor is faster and renders a part of a frame that could not be seen before because this processor power was not available in order for it to be rendered. However I'll take smoothness over lag any day :p

sp1cychick3n
2nd May 2008, 04:29 AM
Yea, but don't you need the game on a memory stick to pull that off? Or can it be achieved even if you have the UMD?

sakerbax
2nd May 2008, 12:43 PM
it can be achieved on the umd, although and maybe this is gray zone if you use a memory stick copy your load times will drop to half
(there are also apps that let you convert your own games to isos, like umdgen, just don't share it after)

omega329
2nd May 2008, 05:53 PM
erm, the discussion of custom firmware is kinda disallowed on these boards. If you're still interested, I suggest this continues in PMs

Harvai
12th May 2008, 06:14 PM
I bought Pure a few days ago and I have to disagree with a few people here. I don't rate Pure above Pulse at all.

The handling is RUBBISH. Well, not really rubbish, but not very wipeout either. Too much back-end sliding for my liking, and the speed loss because of it. Maybe I should play it a bit more, but you know what they say about first impressions...
The tracks are alright. Like Pulse, there's a few 'meh' tracks, but to me, Pure has more of these. The only standout track I've seen thus far is Sol 2. Reminds me of Oodesa Keys.

The menu system, however, is better than Pulse. Has a kinda W3 feel to it.
That's my two cents anyway.

Lance
12th May 2008, 06:56 PM
What I say about first impressions is that they're often wrong. :D



Not always, but often.

omega329
12th May 2008, 07:43 PM
Agreed, Pure was incredible, first time I played it, I thought I would get bored
I was wrong...


Oodesa Keys.
eeek! the Ood! they get everywhere!
BTW, the impossible planet and the satan pit are the awesomest (sic) doctor who episodes ever.:nod

mdhay
12th May 2008, 08:09 PM
LOL! :clap

I am like Switzerland.Neutral.:g

omega329
12th May 2008, 08:51 PM
Swizerland is awesome!
I've been there twice, although my uncle that lives there is a complete control freak, he wouldn't let me watch bruce almighty for god's sake!
Oh, and in my opinion, Doctor Who has gone downhill this series.

anyway, back on topic.
I prefer pure, but I'm better at pulse, pulse is also more suited to zone mode due to the directness of the steering.

blixabargeld
13th May 2008, 08:44 AM
I bought Pure a few days ago and I have to disagree with a few people here. I don't rate Pure above Pulse at all.

The handling is RUBBISH. Well, not really rubbish, but not very wipeout either. Too much back-end sliding for my liking, and the speed loss because of it. Maybe I should play it a bit more, but you know what they say about first impressions...
The tracks are alright. Like Pulse, there's a few 'meh' tracks, but to me, Pure has more of these. The only standout track I've seen thus far is Sol 2. Reminds me of Oodesa Keys.

The menu system, however, is better than Pulse. Has a kinda W3 feel to it.
That's my two cents anyway.

That's exactly the impression I had when playing pure after two months on pulse, and that's because they're really different. I noticed that passing from pure to pulse is far less a "trauma" than in the opposite case. Anyway, as Lance said, first impression are often wrong, take your time and give pure what it deserves. :nod

Harvai
14th May 2008, 03:14 PM
Huh, I posted that yesterday and I'm already starting to warm up to it more! Maybe the DLC has something to do with it, all those extra ships and tracks are awesome.
Finally I can fly an Icarus and not have it plow into every corner!

The handling's still a bit touch-and-go, though

What's in the Omega pack? The .zip file I got it off (which was linked from the Pure area of the forums) had one corrupt file (which appears to be the main one) for the Omega pack.

mdhay
14th May 2008, 04:25 PM
The Omega pack contains Tracks from 123Klan, Cardboy, Neil McFarlane (Paris Hair) And Jon Burgerman.

Ships: Klor - 123Klan
Haironaut - Neil McFarlane
Cardracer - Cardboy
Turboweevil - Jon Burgerman

Also Contains Front - End Skins.

blixabargeld
14th May 2008, 07:42 PM
To Harvai: if you can't find it anywhere, I'll be glad to send it to you by mail.. ;)

P52Smith
17th May 2008, 05:00 PM
Reminds me of Oodesa Keys

Odessa Keys is in the Classic 2 League in one of the download packs. It is probably quite different due to the change in physics engine but the essentials should still be there.:nod

stin
17th May 2008, 10:49 PM
Odessa Keys is soooo different from 2097 compares to Pure`s classic

Pure`s are too easy to play....

stevie:)

KIGO1987
18th May 2008, 10:47 AM
Pulse has gotta be better than Pure. Pulse has more of everything.

The driving dynamics of Pulse is a step above Pure. Wipeout Pure driving dynamics is more like driving a turbo petrol car, you take off then the surge kicks in later. While in Pulse the driving dynamics is more like a turbo diesel car where the power band kicks straight off the mark. Did anyone kinda understand that?

We need a remake off the Gare D'Europa race course from 2097. On some sorta expansion pack for pulse. That would be sweet.

Mobius
18th May 2008, 10:52 PM
Thrust was one gripe from Pure which they did fix, which was nice. But Pulse frustrates me too much in terms of handling. Any game where your vehicle has an incessant urge to make out with the trackside walls at every given moment is not what I personally call fun. :(

Sausehuhn
18th May 2008, 11:24 PM
Yeah. The improved thrust really is one of the good things about Pulse's handling.
But in general Pulse's handling is too direct for me and I really miss the sliding from Pure. Since WO1 the crafts slid and with Fusion the handling changed and the game still isn't at the point it was before Fusions in terms of handling (and it will possibly never be again).
But nonetheless the ships slid in every game but Pulse. At least they don't do it very much in Pulse. Assegai is the only craft that still offers a bit of Pure's handling. It's not too direct for me.

RJ O'Connell
19th May 2008, 02:45 AM
Max, are you sure you're playing the same Wipeout Pulse as I am? In all my times flying Assegai, I have had oversteer issues almost as bad as when I use the FEISAR - it doesn't do a lot of sliding but it definitely overturns into the inside wall quite a bit at low to medium speeds, and around long, slight, sweeping curves.

Then again, I could be talking a bunch of nonsense.

Sausehuhn
19th May 2008, 09:17 AM
Let's say it this way: Assegai does the bad best for me ;) EG.X was totally over-sensitive for me.

Harvai
19th May 2008, 03:11 PM
Odessa Keys is soooo different from 2097 compares to Pure`s classic

Pure`s are too easy to play....

stevie:)

I saw that. I was like HOLY CRAP ODESSA KEYS MUST PLAY! It's similar but different. I suppose they couldn't have it exactly the same, the physics engine might wreak havoc on it.

Besides Porto Koro (Which I think they improved) Odessa Keys is my favorite 'retro' track. Karbonis was a total letdown.
Pure is starting to appeal to me the more I play it...

RJ O'Connell
19th May 2008, 09:23 PM
I'm hesitant to go back to Pure as I hear about people with newer firmware experiencing problems playing the game, especially with DLC on their Memory Stick.

It's tempting though.

omega329
20th May 2008, 07:45 PM
IIRC That was the early 3.xx versions, 3.95 plays fine on my psp.

Darkdrium777
20th May 2008, 09:56 PM
3.90 should too, I'm using 3.90 M33-3 and it works flawlessly. Apart from one crash yesterday but those already happened on old firmwares like 2.xx and 1.xx (When I first got my first PSP and PurE as the only game)

Harvai
21st May 2008, 01:03 PM
IIRC That was the early 3.xx versions, 3.95 plays fine on my psp.

I've got 3.71, should I be worried? What kind of problems are we talking about here?

rdmx
21st May 2008, 02:03 PM
No, think 3.11. I think 3.71 is safe, at least I've had no problems.
The symptoms found are random freezes every now and then, something to do with the download packs.
Here's the old discussion.
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3774

Task
22nd May 2008, 01:52 AM
Definitely.

I've been trying to get good at Pulse, and I've managed to get solid gold up to Phantom (wow, did that take more practice than I expected!), but I just can't find the motivation to really tackle it.

Pulse has lots of great features. The sheer number of tracks is literally overwhelming, the number of race modes is refreshing, the way you can fly any craft you choose and still manage record times (or as close to as you'll manage with any other ship!), so many excellent concepts are embedded in this game.

But I still can't get into it. The download packs definitely helped, flying Icaras is always an experience well worth the time, but the game itself is simply not gripping. It doesn't have the handling, the feeling of really piloting an AG racecraft that I'm looking for.

Pure OTOH?

While playing some multiplayer over the weekend we switched from Pulse to Pure because we agreed it was more fun. Getting back at it I was earning record times all over the place. Entering those times in today I thought to myself "I should probably take a good ship into SR and take a couple minutes to really try for some records. That way when I get a multiplayer record I'll know it's actually worth something and not just telling of how long it's been since I last played this track at this speed". An hour later, Alpha at Vector was done and I wanted to play more but I had to go.

Pure, I keep wanting to go back to. Pulse... not so much.

I think Pure might be my 3rd (maybe even 2nd!) favourite WO, but I know for certain that Pulse is my 2nd least favourite. It's definitely better than Fusion, but I can't rank it above anything else.

lunar
22nd May 2008, 02:17 AM
Really good points, I have to go along with that completely, even to the way you rank the PSP wipeouts. Pure would be my second favourite out of all Wipeout games for sure. Pulse is a worthy member of the Wipeout family, but it`s too twitchy, bangy and generally unsmooth to be much fun.

The ship balance in Pulse is a wonderful thing. The number of tracks is very generous (though for me it`s actually too many too soon - I don`t have time to really learn them all).

But nothing in Pulse can equal the sweet sensation of a storming Phantom lap of Koltiwa, Staten Park, Burgertown or even Exostra Run. I won`t try to work out why, it could run to pages. :)

RJ O'Connell
22nd May 2008, 03:39 AM
What's a "Burger Town"? Does it have anything to do with these "Omega Packs" I've heard so much about? ;)

Back on topic, I find it shocking that after playing just Pulse for about five months, a switch back to playing Pure isn't really that hard. I didn't have to re-learn much, I just had to know the ships don't have hair-trigger steering in Pure as they do in Pulse.

JABBERJAW
22nd May 2008, 02:56 PM
the ships are balanced time wise for time trial, that is for sure. I would like to see them balanced for ARcade race/mulitiplayer instead. The ships need to be balanced for one or the other I am starting to learn. Noone will take a piranha into a multiplayer tourney, and even have a prayer against 3 high acceleration ships (with equal pilots). It's race over within about 10 seconds, after you hit the entire slew of mines,bombs. Even though in Time trial the ships come out to about the same time (phantom) over a 5 lap race, why in the hell would you ever choose an Piranha or Triakis, when they are much harder to pilot to get those times. There has to be a reason to pilot the faster ships, meaning they actually need to be faster, and have a chance to win after the first 10 seconds. Because even if the faster ships somehow catches up by lap 4 (both ships racing perfectly with no weapon hits), they had to race considerably better to get there due to the loose handling, and they still have a much higher chance to hit the wall after that. Even using an Triakis in pure against 4 other competitors has a disadvantage, and that ship is probably 3-4 seconds faster over the course of a medium turn kind of course. The Triakis is closer to what it should be in pulse, but still not there. So, I really don't care about time trial being equal, I'll just get records with all of the ships, but for single race, there should be a reason to choose all of the ships. I wrote a chart up of what I think would work and make the ships win the same amount of times with weapons on , but am not going to post it now because I have some other stuff to do.

So, in closing, balance the mulitplayer/arcade race, not the time trial. Make every ship a viable option, and have advantages. It's the pilots driving that will make the advantages work, or not work

Darkdrium777
22nd May 2008, 04:06 PM
Jacques Villeneuve made a racing game with cars that were all the same, only the driving mattered. It was pretty good.

http://www.btjeux.com/gamecube/photos/B00007BHVG.jpg

It was released for all platforms I think (I have it on PC, just don't know where I put it). So if you have a PS2 and want to try it out, it's available on it too.
Obviously it is very different than Wipeout, but if you like balanced games, well that's one of them. :)

/Offtopic

a friend in speed
26th May 2008, 06:13 AM
all of this is false

Xavier
26th May 2008, 03:58 PM
I agree with all of you about the oversteering in Pulse, and how you're pulled into the wall all the time. Pure is much more pleasant in that regard.

Pulse also seems to cheaply make things more difficult by having lots of dark, low-visibility tracks. I don't like having to memorize where the course is going to go, just to get through it.

OTOH, I'm looking forward to making some custom ship skins. Zone's dull metal boringness is no fun!

TheFrostE
26th May 2008, 04:02 PM
i dont mind pulses oversteering, just because im really good at it, but i think puer is way over the top in other regards. pulse has touchy steering, while pure you have to bully around almost every corner and theres soooo much turning slow down, you definetly dont get the feeling of going realllly fast in pure like you do in pulse. i'd like the turning to go back to how it was in XL/2097,maybe a little bit like 3...whos with me!

Lance
26th May 2008, 08:16 PM
all of this is false

Could you be more specific?

RJ O'Connell
26th May 2008, 11:20 PM
i'd like the turning to go back to how it was in XL/2097,maybe a little bit like 3...whos with me!
That would not be a problem at all. But stick with XL mechanics, those were perfect aside from the shortcuts that could be taken as a result of archaic programming.

master bruce
2nd January 2009, 05:02 AM
One of the reasons I initially listed as to why I liked Pure more than Pulse was because I felt the levels in Pure were much more impressive and inspired

now I feel vindicated...apparently Wipeout HD uses 6 tracks from Pure and only 2 from Pulse

Darkdrium777
2nd January 2009, 09:28 AM
I agree, the track graphics in Pure were a lot 'fresher' between tracks than in Pulse. But Pulse has so much features Pure does not that it becomes even again if you take every + and - about both games into consideration.

master bruce
2nd January 2009, 02:01 PM
What was better in Pulse in your opinion?

Darkdrium777
2nd January 2009, 09:57 PM
Online worldwide, for one. Skin customization. Grid system for the campaign. Speed of the game (Pulse is faster than Pure). Better Barrel rolls (Although still not perfect). Improved texture resolution. Less framerate drops and screen tearing. Eliminator mode. More Zone tracks.

TheFrostE
2nd January 2009, 10:41 PM
pulse imo is better. its got that more raw in your face speed. pure just feels sluggish even on phantom.

but everybody knows that nothing beats WO 1 and XL/2097

swift killer
12th January 2009, 11:38 AM
Personally the only thing i can think of as leading to people thinking that Pure is better than Pulse is one of or both of the following:

1 - Pulse failed to sell (or so i've heard from the same type of websites who poke the voodoo doll hoping for a Sony failure), this only counts if your a complete and utter lemming who follows the crowd.

2 - Pulse is alot tougher than Pure, usually this leads a select minority of people to give up and then go around saying 'this game sucks, i can't even play it'.

3 - master bruce is right on one thing, the tracks in Pure were in some cases more vissually impressive than Pulse, there are one or two tracks which are quite frankly abit rank (basilico & arc prime).

However, all in all it is pretty obvious to most people that Pulse did raise the bar higher than Pure had set it, if the rubbish from the anti-sony-media is true than it is well and truly a big shame that it did not do well sales wise, i personally feel it should have been advertised more publicly.

Darkdrium777
12th January 2009, 04:22 PM
The problem I think is that Sony still fails to understand the concept of advertising. Personally I think a Wipeout advert on TV would do wonders, sadly this probably will never happen. :(
Microsoft had some adverts about Ninja Gaiden which is one of the hardest games I know of, so why can't WO? They're both hard, but they define the platform (Long time franchises)... Sony needs to advertise new and big releases, or else it just won't work sales wise... (LittleBigPlanet... :( If you have a PS3 you've got to try it, it's OSUM! :D)

swift killer
12th January 2009, 05:58 PM
agreed, there needs to be more of a marketing push from sony, regardless of whether or not they are saving it all up for xmas 2009

archman
17th January 2009, 03:03 PM
2 - Pulse is alot tougher than Pure, usually this leads a select minority of people to give up and then go around saying 'this game sucks, i can't even play it'.

IMO pure is more difficult than pulse. In pulse controls are more 'responsive', you're not on ice like on pure ('ice feel' was the problem for me the first few times when i played it...now i like it very much!).

Then again, IMO there is not better or worse, in my slimmy knowledge of playing each one of then i came to a conclusion that you just need to get in with it, and start to like it. I did succeed in that, and now I enjoy either pulse or pure. They are worlds away in terms of similarity, to me.

Cheers, arch. ;)

Task
18th January 2009, 03:38 PM
you're not on ice like on pureYou're not on ice... you're on air! It's even slipperier!
...
Is that a word?

Anyway, the thing you're talking about is called momentum.

It's one of my favourite features of Wipeout, momentum is what makes the game feel 'right' to me and allows the best maneuvers (throwing yourself around a sharp corner with full airbrakes at maximum throttle).

WO1 had this in serious supply, in WOXL and then WO3 it was less noticable but still there. Fusion didn't have it. Pure has lots, Pulse hardly any.

And yes, if I had to bring it down to one factor, I would say momentum is what makes Pure better than Pulse.

swift killer
18th January 2009, 04:45 PM
I think the better aspects of pure were the track designs and the handling, having said that, being able to floor it round every single turn at full throttle is just showing that things are a tad bit to easy, i think SL tried to introduce more of a skill element in pulse.

In racing game terms, it is pretty bonkers that a game allows you to simply go flatout round the tightest turns, it takes away the precision involved.

That's just my impression, im more of a real motorsports guy, i like realism and I hate seeing what i like to call 'gamer antics' in racers, these being;

- scraping round every wall to get round a turn.

- mindlessly going flat out through all turns.

- no concept or idea of racing line or racing etiquette, ie; ramming and charging flat out into everyone as if it was burnout.

This kindof thing i find is a HUGE problem on GT5P and Forza2 when playing online, they should really partition the 'gamers' from the 'racers', but im starting to stray off topic now.

What im trying to say is that i dont like the idea of a game letting you go flatout around every turn, to me it either shows something wrong with the game, being too arcadey, or being too easy.

JABBERJAW
18th January 2009, 05:19 PM
I find piloting in pulse much easier for the whole. The grip is probably too much. The most slippery ship in pulse, still has more grip than the feisar in HD. I like pure's tracks better as well, more bumps, getting into the air feels more like wipeout. Pulse sometimes feels like a car racing game, where pitch (besides holding foward all the time) doesn't mean a thing. That said, The speed is considerable better than pure, and the options for easy to hard is better. The barrel rolls are better. I used to like pulse more, but now they are kinda even for me. I'm really hoping for that ps2 game to come out with ALL the tracks, and HD's handling, now that would be something. It would be better than hd, even with worse graphics.

DeaFen0
18th January 2009, 09:00 PM
Guess Who's Back!? Anyways, I find Wipeout Pulse to beat Wipeout Pure with one simple punch: Online. XLink and other software apps may have simulated it for Pure, but Pulse brought droves of fans together to face off for the first time in it's 10 year legacy. However, I do wish that Pulse had more teams (preferably a certain American one).

swift killer
19th January 2009, 11:28 AM
Agreed, that and the fact they should not be charging for something like that, its ridiculous.

I have strong doubts about there actually being a PS2 version of pulse, and if so, expect it to be identical to the PSP, save for some tweaks to the graphics and controls

Echthroi
17th February 2009, 02:52 PM
I didn't play Pure too long but yes it was much harder somehow. Pulse on the other hand, for some reason, when you get that speed boost in the beginning...it doesnt do nearly as much as it would normally during the race if you somehow managed to boost for any reason. In pure, you get that head start and you can win easy just for getting away with it. =P

Darkdrium777
17th February 2009, 04:39 PM
The AI accelerate faster in Pulse, yes, to compensate for the quick get-ahead you could achieve in PurE.

archman
17th February 2009, 06:09 PM
I don't get you guys, about that get-ahead.
I think that it's way to harder to leave opponent in Pure than in Pulse on hard difficulty.
The AI accelerates faster in Pure, on the beginning...

GreenPhazon
17th February 2009, 07:07 PM
I always preferred the more 'traditional' tournament-style campaign in Pure (especially the 16 race ones) as opposed to the grid-style of Pulse and HD. I wish there were more tournaments in Pulse and HD.

KGB
17th February 2009, 07:21 PM
They got the start more balanced in Pulse, in Pure you could get a fast start, be clear of the pack only to have them all overtake you again which was just ridiculous. Everyone seems to have a more equal start in Pulse.

I personally like the grid system in Pulse. Endlessly looking at your profile in Pure was a pain. I like the tracks better on Pure, the ones on Pulse are a bit dark and oppressive.

Xavier
18th February 2009, 02:42 PM
Endlessly looking at your profile in Pure was a pain.

This would have been less of a pain if you'd been able to, when looking at your profile, just press the X button to immediately jump to that race. I'm so glad they implemented this in Pulse, even if the courses were suddenly in a much less regular order. I ended up making my own custom raceboxes with courses in an easy-to-understand order.

NightArh
18th November 2009, 10:31 AM
Wipeout Pure is a good game but it makes my eyes very tired in a short time. I dont know why and I cant play it for a long time :mad:

WolfKill01
23rd December 2009, 04:22 AM
I bought a new PSP-3000 and Pure a little over a week ago. LOVED IT TO DEATH!!! I spent at least 3 sleepless nights in the past week playing through Pure's amazing levels. I downloaded the all the packs the day after I bought it. And unlocked phantom that day, also. Pure was fast, it was beautiful, it was innovative, and the physics were much smoother and "wipeout-ish" then Pulse's.

Picked up Pulse today, so far the tracks are very uninspiring. And I'm not a huge fan of the style :(
But I'm gonna stick with it. Maybe it's an aquired taste. Either way, look for me online in the next couple months. As soon as I get off my bum to install that wireless router :P

MrSmadSmartAlex
23rd December 2009, 12:14 PM
Hehe, well Pure physics are probably more "Wipeout" than Pulse, yes. I can see why players from the older games (and Pure) might not like the way Pulse feels. I'm not really a hardcore Wipeout series fan (or of any other racing games), so that doesn't matter to me though. Pure has some cool tracks and a great atmosphere too.

But Pulse is the best!:pirate
It's definitely worth sticking with for it's feeling of speed (feels faster than Pure), balanced ship selection (yes, they're all good!:D), online racing, more reliable barrel rolls, and loads more.
Play both games - they're both amazing in their own way.:)

ACE-FLO
23rd December 2009, 12:27 PM
Pure looks pretty... if you're gonna stop and admire the views though - gah :D

Pulse, on the other hand - it rules! The game physics, online readiness, and awesome tracks like Metropia, DeKon, Tech de Ra, Talons, Moa, Platinum Rush, Amphiseum and even OutPost 7 - ruled! Online = addiction (if anyone is racing/not quitting) :g

kanar
1st January 2010, 06:26 PM
Well, I don't know where to start, because I want to stay on topic, even though I have a lot more to say than just add my 2 cents about that question.
I would like to say first, and after my little experiment of these past few days, that I've been fooled. Why? Because these two games are... good yes, but they're running like **** with the official firmware. I thought it was only the case with the -pulse- online universe, but for the first time I tried some speed lap on pulse, with my friend's psp. And oh my god, and without any little warm-up before, I lowered all my phantom times on the tracks I tried by 0.20/0.30 secs. Why I'm saying that now, well, just because some guys here denied -or didn't mention- the fact CF was a lethal weapon offline too. Kandang even declared himself wipeout god in a poll, I remember. Hope he was kidding. Because I spent -well let me check- 262 hours in speed lap mode, with a crappy framerate. And I'm realizing now we never played the same game. Believe me, Jaytech is REALLY not a big deal compared to that. Sony's fault. I can't understand why they're not releasing an OF with the possibility to lock cpu's speed to 333/166. This is insane. I've never heard any report of damaged psp due to this clock speed. Never. They have NO REASON to f**k up our psp like that. Pure & Pulse deserve really better. After this experiment, I won't go back to Pure or Pulse with my psp.
And finally, to go back on topic, I'm prefering pulse because of the better framerate -even with OF lol-, despite the fact pure has better tracks.
Rob I'm sorry for mentioning again this CF stuff, but I was completely devastated to see how much these two games are different regarding the way your psp is running.

MrSmadSmartAlex
1st January 2010, 07:36 PM
Wow! You really hated it that much on ofw?
Since I got my 2nd PSP for ofw use, I've only really been using my CFW one as an mp3 player, for some homebrew games, and also for my beloved retro emulators:D. When I first went back to Pulse on ofw, I noticed it looked a little choppy, but not enough to really ruin the gameplay. But then I was often clocked at default (same as ofw) anyway, for various reasons. I haven't played Phantom TT on my ofw PSP yet, because I haven't unlocked all the tracks yet on my ofw-only Memory Stick, but I have got personal online bests on most tracks recently, as well as a few no.1s on the slower speeds while playing the grids. I'll get the tracks unlocked soon, and see for myself if Phantom TT is really that much worse. Should be interesting.
I've also tried Pure on my CFW PSP, clocked at default, and also at 222 (just out of curiousity), and found that yes, it looked :turd, but BRs still worked, my ship was still going the same speed, my inputs were working. I'm not much of a Pure player though, so perhaps it makes a difference to the fastest players...
Personally, I still don't really care about CFW or Jaytech, but since I'm now on ofw and I've never used Jaytech anyway, at least I don't have to deal with this stuff anymore.:p

I agree with you 100% about Sony ****ing it's customers like always though ;). Sony allowed developers to use 333 since one of the later 3.xx official firmwares, so pretty much all new games are at this clock speed. So yes, they have no reason not to unlock this speed to everybody.

On topic - Pure is awesome (even on ofw), but sorry, Pulse is the best!!!:D


edit: I'm really out of practice with Phantom TT, but I did just manage a 1:40.29 on Metropia Black using ofw, with one really bad lap costing me around a second (and a new record:(). Not quite my best time (1:39.89), but still 0.1 faster than INFAXSU's 2nd place record:D. So now I know ofw can still compete on wipeout-game.com, even if it looks ugly as :turd.

leungbok
2nd January 2010, 12:47 PM
And oh my god, and without any little warm-up before, I lowered all my phantom times on the tracks I tried by 0.20/0.30 secs
Damn you !! :eek
:P

Frances_Penfold
7th January 2010, 08:55 AM
Kanar, you think that CFW strongly affects SL/TT modes? I thought that the impact on these modes was trivial, while SR was strongly affected.


I've never heard any report of damaged psp due to this clock speed. Never. They have NO REASON to f**k up our psp like that. Pure & Pulse deserve really better.

I don't think the concern is hardware, it is software. Supposedly some games don't function correctly when run at 333, so Sony is unlikely is unlikely to unlock 333 with OFW :/

kanar
7th January 2010, 09:33 AM
Kanar, you think that CFW strongly affects SL/TT modes? I thought that the impact on these modes was trivial, while SR was strongly affected.

You have no idea how much it's affecting SL/TT, online or any mode you're playing yeah. Of course my racing log is kinda huge (at least 2000/3000 laps, maybe more, haven't checked for a while, on each white tracks, made all my pulse "career" with OF btw), so when I tested for the first time some speed lap at 333/166, I first believed I was on hd :P (60 fps). -0.10 or 0.20 secs easily on each track... Without much practice. Oh for sure, when I showed to a friend of mine at work, who doesn't play games except some great wii stuff like Rayman Raving Rabbids, he didn't notice the difference at first sight. But for this great hardcore wipeout-dedicated community, it should be obvious, and now the wipeout-game rankings have no more secrets for me lol.

And well I don't know if it's a software problem, I've never heard about any issue with any games when running at 333/166. Pure was never built to run at 333/166, for example, & I've never heard about any crashing report. But I'll tend to agree with you, cos' there's for sure a good reason to bridle our hardware like that.

By the way, we should stop talking about that stuff, I felt some truth has to be said on that matter i.e wipeout-game rankings definitive explanation, but now I don't want to abuse of Rob & mod's patience. I already went too far, so I apologise for bringing back that crap who killed pure & pulse fair competition.

MrSmadSmartAlex
7th January 2010, 05:54 PM
Well I'm sorry to Rob/mods too, because I didn't intend to discuss CFW on here (and I'll try not to in this post), but it's pretty obvious I'm one of the people this :turd is directed at, as I currently hold the majority of Phantom TT records on wipeout-game (sorry if that sounds like bragging - not my intention).
Improving your laps by 0.1 is by no means a "definitive explanation" of anything!:lol
Also, 2000-3000 laps is not a huge racing log - I have over 3000 laps on my ofw PSP alone, and I only got that in November. Just loaded up my CFW PSP to check my (separate) profile on there, and there's over 40000 laps on it (and this is bearing in mind that I restart as soon as I make a record ruining mistake, and not counting the 4500 or so online races I've had), so perhaps that's a better "definitive explanation" of why I have those times. Dunno about KANDANG or INFAXSU, but I'd imagine Flashback Jack has something similar to this too.
I'm playing TT on ofw right now, and it's not costing me any time - in fact, I'm likely to beat my current Arc Prime White record by the end of the day, judging from my best laps. But then I've clearly been branded a cheat now, ofw or not, so I don't know why I'm even bothering to reply to this... :|

kanar
7th January 2010, 06:56 PM
That post wasn't directed at you. Clearly a bad move from my part, when I'm reading your feedback. I had that (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5071) in mind, especially the part when Mad-Ice asked to Flashback how he was playing this game.

Big congratulations for holding these records, tbh I didn't check the wipeout-game rankings for a while now. I think you misunderstood my post. I've improved my times easily, only in a few sessions, without any previous practice at all (I'm on hd since its release, remember). You're right, sometimes by a few tenth, sometimes a little bit more, of course not by 10 secs, but that wasn't my point. I just wondered why it was so easy for me to beat times I made AGES to reach. About my racing log, if you need more details, there's some tracks I loved more than others, for example tech de ra (7451 laps), Platinum (6276), Talon (5324), O7 (4053), but wasn't my point too. Clearly can't be compared to yours. You gave me a lot of details about your great racing log, I've never doubted it would be far more consistent as mine, regarding your achievement (I remember this teamlink division session where you kicked lots of a***s, big time lol). I've never doubted of your skills Ben, as arch's skills, as Kandang, as Flashback, and as a lot of fantastic pilots who played this game the way it should have been played by everyone. Now if you're on your way to beat every single record you have, in OF now (TT or SL), I can just say :+ and all my apologies for my previous input. I will be really -honestly- glad to see all your future new records in the wipeoutzone ranking table. Because you just worth it. But I'll still have this simple argument, which was my point right from the start; turn your two psps on, run pulse, same track, same settings, and tell me honestly which one attract you the most.

XpanDrome2097
7th January 2010, 11:23 PM
But Pulse is the best!:pirate
It's definitely worth sticking with for it's feeling of speed (feels faster than Pure), balanced ship selection (yes, they're all good!:D), online racing, more reliable barrel rolls, and loads more.


Yeah!
Under the point of ship selection, their balancements is a masterpiece indeed.
Every ship in Pulse is good, balanced, and very representative of its own team: for example, Assegai in Pulse is very balanced but Harimau, a little similar, is more oriented in handling than Assegai...and this represents an excellent good point.
And some ships presents some excellent forms of balancements: Qirex, slow thrust but with good speed, good handling and excellent shield is totally different from an Assegai or an Auricom, same thrust and shield as Qirex but a bit more fast, but this represents a serious loss of handling...and every ship with an extremism has its Achilles'heel: Goteki 45, for example, has the maximum thrust but medium handling or Icaras, with the highest speed/accelleration/handling relationship available but very low shield....or, Piranha (yes, at this time am using a lot), top speed and high shield but slow thrust and poor handling.
This is very good at all.
In Pure some ships are really futile: Puma 2 for example, good but its the same ship as Auricom :blarg....but Pure presents an excessive number of ships with an abuse of "3/5" in the racing parameters, and this makes me feel slightly irritaded.
Other ship in Pure for me are overpowered, like Tigron or Puma 1, but Pulse also have this kind of problem: for example, AG-Systems in Pulse is too much overpowered: excellent thrust and handling with good shields...excellent ship indeed, but I gotta admit that it's too easy to win with this ship :).
AG Systems in Pulse has not its historical weak point: the weak shield...
Tracks: honestly every WipEout game for PSP hat its excellent tracks, but I prefer the Pure'tracks...but it's true that the Pulse track are awesome as the same as Pure's tracks!
This is only a personal preference, but..."Orcus", in Pulse...one of the baddest tracks in WipEout history!
Final: Pure for me is an excellent game as Pulse they are 2 different games, and this makes me very satisfied.

MrSmadSmartAlex
8th January 2010, 12:06 AM
@kanar - Ah, seems I misunderstood the part about racing logs - I read it as you've done 3000 laps total!:paperbag

Sure, Pulse is nicer to play on an overclocked PSP than an ofw one. It's probably a little easier to concentrate on your lines too, which may explain why you beat your times quickly (along with switching from HD's truly horrific handling to Pulse's awesome direct handling (joking:P)). I'm not saying that it provides no advantage, but it's definitely not a speed boost - those times are still quite possible on ofw, and I intend to beat at least some of my records (including 333 ones) from wipeout-game using ofw (and, as always, no Jaytech). I just beat my old Arc Prime White Phantom TT race record by 0.02 actually!:D Next step is to try to take it under 1:48. de Kon W is unlikely though, as I used to play only that track for hours every day to get that record.:lol
I'm hesitant to enter Pulse records here, however, because I'll probably be accused of CFW/Jaytech/cheats/whatever. I've read that Jaytech thread (and other similar ones) before, and there's guys talking about them getting the fastest possible times, etc. as if there's no room for improvement (except for cheating or breaking the WoZ rules (which are not the same thing)). There's always room for improvement, and I know for a fact that all my times can (and probably will) be destroyed, sometimes by seconds.;)


@Venom - Hehe, good points, but I must disagree about AG-Sys being overpowered. It's a very strong and accessible ship, and is very useful online, but it has it's weaknesses like all the ships (e.g. low top speed, and also feels very light and bouncy, which loses me speed and control on corners). I honestly wouldn't be able to compete in an AG-Sys like I do in the EG-X (especially my custom black and white skin:lol), but each to their own - seems like you've found your ideal ship.;)

kanar
8th January 2010, 12:30 AM
I'm hesitant to enter Pulse records here, however, because I'll probably be accused of CFW/Jaytech/cheats/whatever...

Don't be hesitant, you have nothing to fear, you already proved to everyone here you're one of the best pulse pilot around the world.


There's always room for improvement, and I know for a fact that all my times can (and probably will) be destroyed, sometimes by seconds.;)

mmm I like that lol, & I believe you. Of course you'll have to deal with that ugly tearing & some framerate drops, but yes, practice is everything, & you'll improve your times for sure. Glad we could find a happy ending together :P.

MrSmadSmartAlex
8th January 2010, 12:36 AM
I didn't necessarily mean that I'll destroy them. Anybody can beat them, if they practice hard and work out the best lines.;)

Temet
8th January 2010, 09:46 AM
Well, I used to play on CFW also.
I have 2 PSP : 2k and 3k.
This week, I switched the 3k back to OFW to be able to play Pulse online again.
Yesterday, I did 3 races (offline) before going to bed on the OFW one. I didn't play since weeks... and now I have WOHD, I found the framerate was :turd ... but I did one single race on Arc Prime and I beat my record.
Ok, I have verrrrryy few laps on every tracks compared to you, I'm far from being a fast wiper... but I beat my record on first race after weeks without playing.
So, ok the feeling is worst with OFW, but not so sure it affects times ;)

And for the topic, yes Pure may be better for physics... but Pure breaks my balls for some other points :
- BR are too hard
- takes AGES to get speed after you are shot
- f*cking disruptor that ruined a lot of races !!!!
- Citta Nuova !!! (OK, I trully hate Outpost on Pulse too :g )

But hey, so many tracks (and great ones), free packs and ships.

leungbok
8th January 2010, 10:09 AM
Point is here !
Kanar, mate, don't underestimate the impact of playing HD regarding your recent improvements on pulse. Personnaly i find the handling of pulse more accessible now (than HD) and i started to regularly improve all my pulse's laptimes after HD was released. HD helped me in understanding some subtilities of the tracks that i was unable to detect on pulse because of the tiny screen and dark graphics. I adjusted my lines on HD and applied that to pulse too (and pure), and it worked. I don't see big differences between ofw and cfw, it's smoother ok, but not at a point that can help that much to gain speed.
But i agree that small differences have sometimes huge impact on someone performances. Ultra light difference in the rebound of the d-pad of my 2 dualshock 3 makes me succeeding in BR with one and failing with the other as an example, so maybe for you the better framerate in cfw is a significative comfort :)

kanar
8th January 2010, 10:28 AM
eh eh I agree with you Leungbok, especially with the tech de ra example..:P. And thanks to all for your inputs, I'm concluding my eyes are probably tired after all these hours of gaming lol, that's why I'm probably so much 60fps/no tearing dependent now. Forget my TT/SL argument, my bad.

MrSmadSmartAlex
8th January 2010, 10:35 AM
Citta Nuova !!! (OK, I trully hate Outpost on Pulse too :g )
Shitta Nuova vs. Outpost 7:lol

Both awesome tracks that are just stupidly difficult, but you've got to have tracks like this, otherwise it can get boring, racing in a straight line all the time. I still get my ass kicked by them both btw.:D
I think I probably prefer O7 (Black more than White), but only because I've played it more than Shitta. I have had an awesome session on Free Play on Shitta though, and it has that amazing turbo shortcut - throwing a BR into that on internal view is my favourite Pure moment of all.:banzai

edit: I agree about the disruptor btw. Pulse has nothing approaching the :turd-ness of that stupid weapon.

XpanDrome2097
8th January 2010, 02:35 PM
Uahahaha Shitta Nuova :g????
I agree with you: I hate Outpost 7, the only good point for itself is its own name hihihi, very boring track.
I still remeber the first time that I've tried with Piranha...mmmh, no good at all :paperbag!
Città Nuova? Mmmhh, I don't know if I feel indifference or hate with it....but it's generally a modest track.
But it's the first track of Pure that I have seen of the first times on Youtube to have a preview of the game, and, maybe, only for this, I can't feel hate for it :P.

EDIT: distruptor is a good name for a weapon, but it's still stupid!

JABBERJAW
9th January 2010, 02:26 AM
I would now after playing the three a good amount, that Pure is imo way better than pulse or hd for me. It has the stupid barrel rolls not working in single player, the bs disruptor, and some weapons that makes you go backwards at times (lots of swears), and pitch control that is not too good in that it doesn't change your postition of where you land too much. Now pulse, way too grippy, I think the game is fun, but not really like wipeout at all due to almost no sliding like any of the older games. Pure's turning is like the older games to a certain degree, only marred by the sideshift keeping the grip too much (although not nearly as much as pulse or hd). Hd is just way too easy, way too many weapons. It is too easy to keep up to even the best players, and hit them with a quake or another weapon. Driving skill is at a minimum in this game, where in Pure, driving skill matters significantly. I hit one wall, i am not going to be hitting someone who didn't with a missle without some good driving first. Pulse is also better than Hd in this regard. I remember at the tournament, travis and I were watching some driving in chenghou reverse, and some were smashiing into the last sharp turn, and basically coming out almost just as fast as someone doing a perfect lap, making the game too much about weapons.

However, if you added in a time trial race like pure to HD where you get one turbo per lap, no weapons, I might go back to Hd a little more.

kanar
9th January 2010, 09:10 AM
Good idea in adding Hd to the comparison Al. I agree with you when you're saying hd is way too much weapon oriented, but regarding driving skills uh, I can tell you the best players still succeed in winning easily, sometimes with a comfortable -unbelievable?- margin; no matter how many quakes you'll throw to -sorry for giving names lol- Yeldar, for example (could have said wotan, luxoflux, wellington, ericd7m, greenix, pirah... lots of names I've raced during our tournaments), he'll stay way behind, thx to his awesome driving skills. I love when you're saying you're not going to shoot someone with good driving skills at first sight, cos' this is exactly how we love to race during some crazy week-ends. This is still the spirit, even if some people abuse of the crazy hd weapon power sometimes. Technical races (no weapon races), as TorquedSoul named them in his ELO league, are a good way to experience something different, even if wall scrapping or weird contacts between ships (most of the time due to ping/lag/our weak connections) are occuring really often & can ruin a race. But just have a look at the no weapon records I'm trying to keep running, you'll see they are constantly beaten by the best skilled players. Also, I would disagree with you regarding chenghou reverse -or the forward version, same turn-; it's really faster to take them perfectly instead of rushing into the wall, I can guarantee that. But hey, that's my two cents, as an hd player since its release. I'm assuming the fact I didn't play too much pure comparing to you. But I'm the first to agree with you regarding pure handling, the way ships are sliding is a great feeling. And yeah signing up for your time trial idea!
oh and just something else; Leungbok had a real good point here :

...i started to regularly improve all my pulse's laptimes after HD was released. HD helped me in understanding some subtilities of the tracks that i was unable to detect on pulse because of the tiny screen and dark graphics. I adjusted my lines on HD and applied that to pulse too (and pure), and it worked... Tech de Ra white is a great example.

kaori
9th January 2010, 11:11 AM
Hello Al, your contribution is good, I'm partially right with.

Why partially ? Just because the community on WipEout HD is 50 or 100 times larger ! So it's normal that online races are more tight, and the importance of weapons is bigger.

I remember some tournaments with 6 or 8 good players on WipEout Pulse where every one could win a race... thanks to weapons !

Today I can play WipEout Pure with some friends on adhoc Party, and it's the same, weapons can be decisive or ruin your race. But it's true WipEout Pure is the game where a mistake seems to cost you the most time.

Weapons are important too in WipEout Pure & Pulse, in the sense that if you kill an opponent, he can't finish the race and score 0 point ! No respawn, no second chance !

In fact, more level of players is dense, and more the weapons are important.

stin
9th January 2010, 02:24 PM
Yes exactly over Pure, that`s why I`m struggling to stay on the line and create stability but, that is not always the case, all I need is practise to improve my game. That is why, we have few excellent players compare to Pulse players statistically. Most Pulse players goes for TT rather than Pure`s TT. but again, I could be wrong.

stevie:)

JABBERJAW
9th January 2010, 11:31 PM
ON chenghou, it is faster to take it perfect, but not enough to get out of sight of some who slams it (keep in mind i'm saying at least they have their ship turned to the same angle as the wall, not straight in :) ) I agree with pulse, except, when you hit a wall, you do slow down quite a degree, and it will be difficult to catch up. I think the weapons are too much in all the games really, just that pure I thought had the nice slide handling. We played fusion multiplayer in the NA tourney, and unbelievably, that had the best weapon slowdown of ships out of all the games. Go figure the worst wipeout game has the best weapon affect on the ships.

Kryowing
26th August 2010, 09:01 AM
Personally, i think pulse is better then pure.
Reasons? Pulse is more refined, and not as graphically cluttered imo, and like previous posts, the AI isnt nearly as good as pulses. The skin editor was a great addition to the already awesome game, but in respect, i also think that pure's tracks were much better in terms of uniqueness and artistic areas. Pulse, to me, is one of the few wipeouts that i can play for days on end, pure just isnt one of them.

Xpand
26th August 2010, 05:11 PM
I think, honestly, that, in terms of speed feeling and gameplay, Wipeout Pure is much better than Pulse... In terms of looks, Pulse takes the cake...

F.E.I.S.A.R
25th November 2010, 07:50 AM
Being used to the later versions of WipEout,I find that PulsE is better than PurE. The Zone mode is not restricted to exclusive tracks and I'm used to HD and PulsE,so I'm not really for the physics of PurE.

Flint Fandango
25th November 2010, 01:34 PM
If you own a PS2, there´s no choice.
All you got is Pulse...well, and Fusion but that game sucks (imo!) and it´s off topic anyway.
But Pure sure has beautiful tracks!
I think that both games are pretty cool. But Pulse has an advantage with the handling, I think!

WolfKill01
28th November 2010, 12:11 AM
In my opinion, Pure beats Pulse, hands down. The ship models are better looking, the tracks are simply more appealing and well thought out, and the physics are tough but incredibly satisfying when you master them. There's nothing quite like gliding around vineta in one of the heavy ships. Slipping in and out of corners and into straights ridden with boost pads. Defiantly one of the most visceral experiences I've ever had while gaming8).

On the other hand, Pulse has a lot of things going for it, i.e. online, ship editing, and faster speed. not to mention that the handling has a less significant learning curve to new comers then in Pure.

It all really down to a personal opinion really. And mine is Pure :).

Rixo
28th April 2011, 02:53 AM
I have to agree there's the unlockable Zone team (:rock) and differant menu designs, but the one reason I dont play Pure is because of the turning drift. I just cant fly as good with that ship slide. With Wipeout Pulse, I just turn and I'm heading that way.

Flint Fandango
30th April 2011, 01:10 PM
I like both games, no question, but if I have to make a decision...well let´s take a look:

Pure
Pos.: Beautiful track and ship design, "old school" handling, some fusion teams (which is good for people like me who don´t like fusion as a game), an interesting story in the background and stylish team menues. Free DLC´s! No eliminator mode.
Neg.: Even if I think that stats are smoke and mirrors, the balance between the teams isn´t really fair. Like the elder WO´s, there are weak teams. This is a very frustrating fact, especially in TimeTrials.
BR´s are hard to implement. Preset music. The view changes very often against my will. No online gaming without X link kai. Exclusive Zone tracks + boring, impersonal Zone ships.

Pulse
Pos.: Classic and also very interesting new teams. Well balanced ship stats, there is no such thing as a weak ship, imo. Customize ship design options. Adjustable difficulty levels. No vector class. BR are quite easy to implement. You can add your own music. Many alternative ship designs.
Neg.: You´ve to get used to the "new" handling if you´re an old schooler. Too dark and apocalyptic track design, especially Metropia is very obscure. Eliminator ship designs are uniform grey. You´ve to pay for the DLC´s and they are quite expensive. :donututp:donutst 7 - :turd. I´m not a great eliminator fan, so...

In terms of my personal opinion and the facts above, I would say:
Pulse takes the cake, if I have to make a choice - but both games are pretty excellent!

leungbok
1st May 2011, 08:04 AM
Pure has timetrial online ! :P

Sausehuhn
1st May 2011, 11:07 AM
Pure beats Pulse’s art direction. Pure is exactly what it says in the name: Pure. I mean: look at the intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQgBtgQaW9o) and you know what I’m talking about. That is WipEout Pure.

Also the environment design seems a lot less distracting compared to Pulse’s. Technically, Pulse is superior to Pure, but it adds so many details and neon lights, it’s sometimes complicated to focus on the track. Especially because some are too dark, too. That’s not really a problem for a home console game, but with the PSP and it’s glossy display, it is. In addition, too many details can look pixelated on the small PSP screen.
Also, the Magstrips do not work as well as you would think on some tracks. „Basilico“ for example has far to many Magstrip-parts and you have to adjust your ship on every new steep turn to avoid crashing into walls. WOHD’s selection of Magstrip-tracks is fine, but Pulse has some Magstrips where they seem like cheap gimmicks. Pure shows that good track designs do not need Magstrips – and Pure has plenty of good tracks.

The ship designs are polished WOPure models, so that’s okay with me. You have plenty of Skins to choose from and even prototype models. Some of those look pretty awesome. You have online modes, Eliminator and plenty of tracks to race, plus you can make your own leagues and some things are simply a tad better.

But: The whole menu design is a huge step backwards (in my optinion, that is). The whole hexagon theme does not fit. Those color gradients and stuff. Thankfully they did everything right with WOHD. I know it’s only the menu design, but it reflects the whole game for me somehow.

And: Pure’s handling is a lot smoother to me. In Pulse I see me bumping over the track, from left to right and up and down. Pure simply flows over the track and feels right. Leagues are predefined – that’s a huge downer for multiplayer – but the handling does make up for that.

I have just recently rediscovered my love for WipEout Pure and I’m really enjoying it. I just started a new profile and it’s a lot of fun.
And then, maybe, I have a stronger connection to Pure, as it brought WipEout back to life and – retrospective – it was my reason to have a PSP. I spend so many hours with it, also online via Xlink, and it was the game of the first WipEout Convention back in 2007. So many memories. I just do not have that connection to Pulse.

That being said, Pulse is still a damn good game.

MENGKESHI
11th May 2011, 09:17 AM
Not being able to put on my own music (pls correct me if there's a way to do it) kills pure for me :(

dmcclusky1234
1st February 2015, 08:52 AM
When I had pure I had no idea what I was doing (because it was typical me)So I sold it.Just wish I hadn't.Still have pulse so I think what looks like pure is better than pulse.

NeroIcaras
3rd August 2015, 06:11 AM
I'm neutral, but not having Harimau or Auricom in Pulse sucked for me. Pure, the annoying thing is no eliminator. Sucky
Pure 9/10
Pulse 8.9/10

Jonny
3rd August 2015, 07:20 PM
I hate such discusions.
I love wipEout games and sometimes I like PurE, sometimes PulsE, heck Fusion is nice sometimes to and here and then I still like the original.

replicashooter
15th March 2016, 04:58 PM
Pure is definitely the purest for the purists as it takes everything that was amazing about the entire series, distils it and places it in your pocket. Pulse on the other hand, whilst good feels that it takes a couple of steps forward and a couple back at the same time.

If Pulse had came out first and then Pure people would have said "Now thats an excellent progression and evolution of an already good game" but as it stands it wasn't fully up to the impossibly high standards set by the first title.

Also the simplicity of the first one and its sparseness compared to the overly busy vibe of the second one was a minus point for me. The Vita version took this entire aesthetic and turned it up to 11, simultaneously ruining what could have been a potentially amazing game as I have many times before complained.

JFthebestJan
15th March 2016, 06:24 PM
pulse is the way better game in my opinion, pure is just an incomplete prototype style game. non working BRs and shitty framerates, even on psvita. pulse on the other hand plays like a charm, and is absolutely beautiful on pstv :)

applepiejr
19th July 2016, 04:11 AM
pure is just an incomplete prototype style game.
why do you think that? 8 tracks? didn't WipEout, WipEout 2097/XL, and Wip3out (non SE) only have 8 tracks as well? does that make them prototypes too? no of course not. yes standards have changed over the years and gamers generally expect more content these days but one thing i always appreciated about WipEout is quality over quantity. the 12 tracks in Pulse just weren't as great overall compared to the 8 main tracks in Pure. in all fairness Pulse has some great tracks (Moa Therma, Tech De Ra, and Platinum Rush) but honestly the rest are merely good and there are a few mediocre ones (De Konstruct and Outpost 7 :turd). on the flip side its really hard to find a track in Pure that isn't pretty fricken awesome, in physical design and visual design, though the classic tracks were disappointing.


non working BRs
yea its annoying but you learn to work around it and its certainly not a huge issue. you just have to account for the extra time it takes after the animation completes before the speed boost is given. if you know you don't have enough time, simply don't perform one. afaik BRs weren't even advertised in Pure. i'm sure thousands of people played it without even knowing they could do one.


and shitty framerates, even on psvita.
the frame rate really wasn't much better in Pulse, at least on the default 222 MHz. it was more consistent though and actually ran above 30 FPS in TT and Zone which was nice. regardless you can run Pure through emulation with an FPS fix so it runs at a perfect 60 FPS in HD. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouKQushsxwc

MrSmadSmartAlex
21st July 2016, 08:49 PM
Moa Therma better than De Konstruct and Outpost 7? :lol

applepiejr
22nd July 2016, 01:50 AM
yes.

Moa Therma has great flow, effective use of mag strips, and great visual design. i'm sure the developers felt the same way which is why it was remade for WipEout HD.

i imagine your reasoning for preferring De Konstruct or Outpost 7 over Moa Therma would be because they are harder. but a hard track does not mean a good track. and an easy track does not mean a bad track. You can have technical circuits that are very well designed (Platinum Rush). Outpost 7 was not well designed.

De Konstruct was a cluttered mess and Outpost 7 was hard for the sake of hard with bad flow, a bridge section that isn't worth going on (making it pointless), and somewhat weak visual design. and i'm sure a poll from the community would agree those were the worst tracks in Pulse. i mean seriously it made me question if the developers ever played Outpost 7 on Phantom with Triakis or Piranha. it's painful to play on with those vehicles, even as a veteran who memorized the layout.

stin
22nd July 2016, 04:46 PM
Outpost Black and White, totally loved those tracks, but mine average score on both sides are 1.52.xx with Feiser ship! Got to admit, l used to play TT religiously over 5000 laps. Pretty normal to me lol

stevie :)

MrSmadSmartAlex
22nd July 2016, 06:03 PM
an easy track does not mean a bad track
Yes it does. :D

applepiejr
22nd July 2016, 07:43 PM
care to elaborate?

MrSmadSmartAlex
22nd July 2016, 09:08 PM
Easy tracks are useful for learning the ropes, but after that, they're basically boring. I like tracks that punish mistakes, because it's more of a challenge in itself, and also because it allows expert players to pull ahead, which is how it should be. And I enjoy trying to work out a nice flowing line through a tricky track. The tracks you're bashing do have a good flow if you know what you're doing and are accurate enough.

edit: Actually, I will say this for easy tracks - in Zone mode, they allow you to reach ridiculous speeds, which is a whole different kind of challenge! :D

stin
22nd July 2016, 09:45 PM
Just to let you know, Colin Berry the Lead Designer for Pure, Pulse and WipeoutHD wrote way back in 2007

"Tracks... its odd how people see things different. The designers of the tracks (Karl and I) both see Outpost 7 at the one we are the most disappointed with, yet some people really like it. Personally I think Tech De Ra is the best Wipeout track of any iteration, including the numerous tracks created and scrapped over the years. Its up there with ghost valley 1 ini snes mario kart as a track that is a joy to race over and over, for me anyway.
To call them randomly generated.... well thats just not true and its a bit dismissive to the time effort and dedication that went into them over the past 18months. Criticism is fine, it how we improve areas and indeed I would say the areas I'd change would be to add a few more jumps in general and also I would undo the decison to have a black / white for every track, some work very well, a couple dont. I do know though that a lot of time effort and care went into the track and environment generation, its an area I particularly value highly. I think it is a strong line up of tracks though there could probably have been an extra harder track in there, it should have been outpost 7 but its a little frustrating, but I have 100% faith in the track building process and the ability to come up with tracks of our designers, indeed I know we have the best people for the job. Looking back throughout each Wipeout, all of them have had tracks that some people disliked and some loved, its the nature of the beast, being unable to please all.

None of the tracks share bends, they are all designed individually and whilst some bends may end up similar, none share the same data at all. they are all constructed afresh (aside of course white / black versions of same environment)"

Original link http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?4384-10-Things-I-hate-about-WipEout-Pulse&p=75527#post75527

stevie :)

applepiejr
22nd July 2016, 10:55 PM
@MrSmadSmartAlex
sounds like any track that throws enough obstacles at you is considered good in your eyes. is there any hard track you don't like?
like i said objectively speaking hard or easy in itself has no correlation with what makes a track good or bad, expect for extreme cases (which does not apply for any track in WipEout Pulse).

don't misinterpret my statements. Outpost 7 is not a bad track, but it is mediocre in design. its an okay track, but i expected better from WipEout.

hard tracks are the hardest to get right from a design perspective.

and good flow would be a track that gives you visual cues. a track that blends visual design with the physical attributes which results in cohesive design. not Outpost 7.

as for De Konstruct its mostly the visuals that hurt it more than anything else. and the split on the Black run though a nice idea was not done well.

@stin
yes, i know, i read it myself along with every other post from that thread :)

of course you cannot please everybody, but you can try to please as many people as possible. and i guarantee Outpost 7 displeases far more people than it pleases. someone somewhere will always like something, that doesn't make it good.

MrSmadSmartAlex
23rd July 2016, 12:23 AM
Not at all. Not all obstacles are equal, and there's such a thing as too much. Yeah, I don't like Platinum Rush very much. Its particular challenges aren't fun to me, and there's not really any smooth line through it if you want to set competitive times. I'm not too keen on Orcus Black or Vostok Reef Black either, which are both pretty tricky tracks from the DLC packs. And of course a few from the other games.

We're not speaking objectively though. We're discussing opinions. Only tracks that have serious glitches (such as respawn points within the track limits) would be objectively bad, and there isn't really stuff like that in Pulse (only when you push it too far trying to cut corners! :D).


and good flow would be a track that gives you visual cues. a track that blends visual design with the physical attributes which results in cohesive design. not Outpost 7.
as for De Konstruct its mostly the visuals that hurt it more than anything else. and the split on the Black run though a nice idea was not done well.
This is incredibly vague...

applepiejr
23rd July 2016, 01:30 AM
only tracks that have serious glitches would be objectively bad? no thats not true at all.

what is the purpose of the bridge in Outpost 7? its supposed to be a shortcut but you don't really save time on it, do you? i find on anything but Venom its not worth going on.

vague? i didn't think i needed to be descriptive for something obvious. De Konstruct is a mess visually speaking. there is junk all over the background, which makes navigating the track confusing. and ultimately feels claustrophobic. it has good ideas, looking at other racers above you was obviously the main intent of the track, but the rest of it is cluttered junk visually speaking.

and the split on the Black run. really, you can't think of a better application of a mag strip split? there are so many more creative ways. and thats a fundamental problem i have with some of the tracks. they lack creativity.

JABBERJAW
23rd July 2016, 04:25 AM
I like the harder tracks better as well, too many straights don't allow for many mistakes. It looks like the emulation is allowing some barrel rolls that would not have worked on the psp with the other ships onscreen.

MrSmadSmartAlex
23rd July 2016, 10:41 AM
only tracks that have serious glitches would be objectively bad? no thats not true at all.
It's absolutely true.


what is the purpose of the bridge in Outpost 7? its supposed to be a shortcut but you don't really save time on it, do you? i find on anything but Venom its not worth going on.
The bridge does kind of suck (except on Venom... which means it's not an objective flaw), yes, but it hardly ruins the entire track, because you can simply not go on it. And even with that flaw, O7 is still way better than boring Moa Therma.


vague? i didn't think i needed to be descriptive for something obvious. De Konstruct is a mess visually speaking. there is junk all over the background, which makes navigating the track confusing. and ultimately feels claustrophobic. it has good ideas, looking at other racers above you was obviously the main intent of the track, but the rest of it is cluttered junk visually speaking.

and the split on the Black run. really, you can't think of a better application of a mag strip split? there are so many more creative ways. and thats a fundamental problem i have with some of the tracks. they lack creativity.
Well that's just your perception. It's not obvious, because I never found it confusing at all. The White run is one of the simplest tracks in the game, but still has a few interesting corners and barrel rolls. The Black run is quite tricky, but well designed. What's wrong with the split? The use of the magstrip is simple and effective - you either use it to go low or stay off it to go high, and it wasn't clear which was actually faster for quite a long time, which is great (in the end it turned out that you can swerve off the magstrip at the right moment to start a high risk barrel roll chain on the top section). Compare it to Moa Therma, which you've praised for its effective use of magstrips - well what effect do those magstrips actually have? A big loop that doesn't serve any real purpose in terms of gameplay (even less than the bridge in Outpost 7).

@Al
Barrel rolls get less responsive when the CPU is struggling, but I find they're still possible on ofw with other ships onscreen, you just need to start the motion earlier (sometimes just before you've actually left the ground! :lol). But yeah, the emulator lets you set the clock speed higher than 333MHz. Not tried that for myself yet, but if it works, you can probably get constant 60fps.

applepiejr
23rd July 2016, 11:57 PM
It's absolutely true.
absolutely not. so you say Moa Therma is boring yet there are no serious bugs so according to you there should be nothing wrong with it. oh but you never said it was bad so that doesn't count? i never said any track in Pulse was bad either so honestly i have no idea what you are getting at.



The bridge does kind of suck (except on Venom... which means it's not an objective flaw), yes, but it hardly ruins the entire track, because you can simply not go on it. And even with that flaw, O7 is still way better than boring Moa Therma.
of course its an objective flaw, every track should be designed to work well on every speed class, especially Phantom (some say the definitive WipEout experience). so yea the bridge on Outpost 7 objectively fails in this regard.

and Moa boring? how?

bends (vertical and horizontal change)? check
decent number of speed pads? check
BRs? check
interesting visual design (ocean, islands, futuristic buildings, NO CLUTTER)? check

really i'm not sure what you need Moa to be to not be boring. narrower? its not supposed to be hard to play. a track doesn't need to be hard to play in order for it to be hard to master.

and no don't say hard/obstacles/pain/suffering is what makes a great track because that is crazy. Moa Therma has its place even for veterans. its one of the few tracks where you can make 2 perfect laps but have vastly different times. the difference? racing line, its crucial on a wide track like Moa.

A.I. too easy? theres a mod for that :rock



Well that's just your perception. It's not obvious, because I never found it confusing at all. The White run is one of the simplest tracks in the game, but still has a few interesting corners and barrel rolls. The Black run is quite tricky, but well designed. What's wrong with the split? The use of the magstrip is simple and effective - you either use it to go low or stay off it to go high, and it wasn't clear which was actually faster for quite a long time, which is great (in the end it turned out that you can swerve off the magstrip at the right moment to start a high risk barrel roll chain on the top section). Compare it to Moa Therma, which you've praised for its effective use of magstrips - well what effect do those magstrips actually have? A big loop that doesn't serve any real purpose in terms of gameplay (even less than the bridge in Outpost 7).
i read enough posts of people complaining about the visuals on De Konstruct to feel confident in my statements. i don't really have a problem with the layout of the white run per say but the split on the black run is so underwhelming. a narrow corridor? really? that whole area seemed like an afterthought. like they added it after they designed the original layout. let me clarify, there is really nothing wrong with it! but its underwhelming in design! it could have been better. i can imagine better. you can't?

the loop on Moa is a visual element that looks nice

the bridge on Outpost 7 is a gameplay element that no one wants to go on and gets in your way

not sure why you are trying to compare elements with different purposes.



@Al
Barrel rolls get less responsive when the CPU is struggling, but I find they're still possible on ofw with other ships onscreen, you just need to start the motion earlier (sometimes just before you've actually left the ground! :lol). But yeah, the emulator lets you set the clock speed higher than 333MHz. Not tried that for myself yet, but if it works, you can probably get constant 60fps.
interesting, yea the problem does not exist on the emulator (PPSSPP). after 30+ hours on PC i haven't encountered that bug. the emulator runs the game at 60 FPS by default, i find that interesting because we know on a real PSP with OFW the game uses 222 MHz and its definitely not 60 FPS. more like 40-50 FPS depending on the mode. using CFW and 333 MHz we see around 60 FPS but the emulator should by default use 222 MHz yet the game runs at a perfect 60 FPS which i find to be strange. even the CFW PSP @ 333 MHz probably has drops under 60. there should be some kind of drop or fluctuation if it was true emulation (and no applied FPS cheats), mimicking the refresh rate of the real PSP at 222 MHz.

MrSmadSmartAlex
24th July 2016, 01:12 AM
As I said, I don't consider any track in Pulse objectively bad, because I'm able to recognise the difference between opinions and facts.
Moa has no interesting or challenging corners, and it doesn't really punish playing badly. And no, it's really not that hard to set consistent lap times on it. So I find it boring. It has its place in the game, but it doesn't have much to offer me. Outpost 7, on the other hand, has a great deal to offer me, and an almost-useless bridge I don't have to go on isn't going to change that.


i read enough posts of people complaining about the visuals on De Konstruct to feel confident in my statements.
And I've spent enough time actually playing the game to feel confident in mine.
You seem very focused on the visuals, particularly the backgrounds. To each their own, but I'm far more interested in actual gameplay, and De Konstruct plays very well on both runs. And I quite like the way it looks anyway. You consider the claustrophobic feel a bad thing, while I think it suits the track.


Actually, Sony did increase the default clock speed from the original 222Mhz to 266Mhz with one of the 2.xx firmwares, and then later allowed developers to use the full 333Mhz, but never unlocked it for older games, even though it clearly makes them run better. So Pure and Pulse run at 266MHz on a PSP on up to date official firmware.
I may be mistaken, but I think the emulator is clocked at 333MHz by default on all games. It's set to that on mine, and I don't remember changing it.

applepiejr
24th July 2016, 01:41 AM
Moa has no interesting or challenging corners,

not true, it has a few challenging corners, and one with a tricky BR… well, maybe not tricky for you and me but its not as straight-forward as doing a BR from a regular jump. on the black run its much harder to perform and its so satisfying when you get it.



and it doesn't really punish playing badly. And no, it's really not that hard to set consistent lap times on it.

and thats a bad thing? the best players still have plenty to accomplish on the track to set themselves apart from newbies.



And I've spent enough time actually playing the game to feel confident in mine.

i apologize for that statement, sounds arrogant. what i meant to say is i've seen plenty of people complain about it as well so i'm definitely not the only person. its one of the only tracks in the game people complained about the visuals - tells you something.



You seem very focused on the visuals, particularly the backgrounds. To each their own, but I'm far more interested in actual gameplay, and De Konstruct plays very well on both runs. And I quite like the way it looks anyway. You consider the claustrophobic feel a bad thing, while I think it suits the track.

alright your falling back to some kind of opinion shrugging. my statement was not meant to be subjective so if you find that to be wrong explain it with at least some detail "i like it so that means your statement is opinion too" undermines the discussion.

i wouldn't even say the visual design of De Konstruct is bad, more like a missed opportunity. you have this twisty turny track going through a huge futuristic city and the best you can show me is metal junk near the track? there is very little sense of depth. there isn't much distance between the foreground and background in many parts of the track.

visuals are very important, its one of the reasons i fell in love with WipEout. its one of the only racing game series that blends precision gameplay with art. so visual design is very important and if you don't think so, maybe this isn't a discussion for you.



I may be mistaken, but I think the emulator is clocked at 333MHz by default on all games. It's set to that on mine, and I don't remember changing it.
its not. default is… well… the default. same as a real PSP. the game dictates clock speed on default setting. i read this on a PPSSPP thread.



Actually, Sony did increase the default clock speed from the original 222Mhz to 266Mhz with one of the 2.xx firmwares, and then later allowed developers to use the full 333Mhz, but never unlocked it for older games, even though it clearly makes them run better. So Pure and Pulse run at 266MHz on a PSP on up to date official firmware.
for WipEout Pulse, one of the developers (may have been intoxicated or colin or both i don't remember) said it runs at 222 MHz.

so again this is dictated by the game. i don't think there is any firmware update that forces any game to run at a faster clock speed. the firmware update only allows developers to use higher clock speeds in their games if they choose to implement it. (i think) sony would not force games to run at a higher clock speed because it could have unforeseen problems. why should a developer have to go back and patch a game that breaks because the CPU clock changed? the chances of this happening are small but with thousands of games it might be a problem for a few.

MrSmadSmartAlex
24th July 2016, 03:56 PM
Well I've never found any of Moa's corners challenging, and only the turbo-assisted barrel roll onto the magstrip is tricky to set up. I also did somewhere between 5500 and 6000 online races when the servers were still up, and Moa stood out as the track where players who were otherwise clearly slower could keep up, and if they got lucky enough with weapons, even win. When I say it's not punishing enough, it's another way of saying it doesn't reward skill enough. Of course that's a bad thing in a competitive game.

I'm not "falling back" to opinions, it's been my position the whole time. De Konstruct isn't the best looking track, but it does what it's meant to do, which is feel like a race through a cramped "under construction" section of a city.
I do think visuals matter, just nowhere near as much as gameplay. It isn't a discussion for me? You entered the thread to respond to a guy talking about gameplay.


Yeah, I checked again, and it is indeed "default" by default. But it seems that the setting isn't actually functioning - I just tested Pulse at 125Mhz, expecting a slideshow, but it played exactly the same as 333MHz and even 500MHz!
Pulse definitely runs at 266MHz on a normal PSP on official firmware, and I've never read Colin or any of the other developers say otherwise. Maybe you're thinking of an old post about Pure?
I guess can understand Sony having concerns about forcing 333MHz for all games without testing, but they could have at least have put an option in the PSP system settings (with a "software is not guaranteed to function correctly" warning or something). And they don't seem to have a problem with allowing the Vita's PSP emulator to run old games without the restrictions.

applepiejr
24th July 2016, 08:46 PM
Well I've never found any of Moa's corners challenging, and only the turbo-assisted barrel roll onto the magstrip is tricky to set up. I also did somewhere between 5500 and 6000 online races when the servers were still up, and Moa stood out as the track where players who were otherwise clearly slower could keep up, and if they got lucky enough with weapons, even win. When I say it's not punishing enough, it's another way of saying it doesn't reward skill enough. Of course that's a bad thing in a competitive game.
your point being that matches are close enough that more often than not weapons make the difference between winning and losing. fair enough.
but honestly when it comes to true competition, you need LAN to remove latency issues. Wi-Fi play is casual.



I'm not "falling back" to opinions, it's been my position the whole time. De Konstruct isn't the best looking track, but it does what it's meant to do, which is feel like a race through a cramped "under construction" section of a city.
I do think visuals matter, just nowhere near as much as gameplay. It isn't a discussion for me?
its not opinions, but opinion shrugging, as in "i like this" or "i like that". why??? opinion or not there are reasons for every decision, and if you can't give reasons in detail then i guess you don't feel very strongly about it.

De Konstruct looks fine. its just that in a fairly strong track selection, that and Outpost 7 come off as the most underwhelming. - does not mean bad, it means relative to the rest.
and De Kon really would have benefited from some translucent track sections. again, huge futuristic city, but we see very little of it.



You entered the thread to respond to a guy talking about gameplay.
well, i did mention visual design in the first post. and the video i put was supposed to remind people what amazing visual design looks like.



Yeah, I checked again, and it is indeed "default" by default. But it seems that the setting isn't actually functioning - I just tested Pulse at 125Mhz, expecting a slideshow, but it played exactly the same as 333MHz and even 500MHz!
yea same thing happens in Pure, its very strange.



Pulse definitely runs at 266MHz on a normal PSP on official firmware, and I've never read Colin or any of the other developers say otherwise. Maybe you're thinking of an old post about Pure?
these were the posts i remember:
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?4384-10-Things-I-hate-about-WipEout-Pulse&p=75665&highlight=222+333+MHz+clock+speed#post75665
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?4384-10-Things-I-hate-about-WipEout-Pulse&p=75694&highlight=222+MHz+speed#post75694

but your right. i misinterpreted those statements as in oh i guess its a 222 MHz game, meanwhile there was already the firmware update allowing 266 MHz so i guess they settled on 266 MHz, even though they never stated exactly which clock speed they used.



I guess can understand Sony having concerns about forcing 333MHz for all games without testing, but they could have at least have put an option in the PSP system settings (with a "software is not guaranteed to function correctly" warning or something). And they don't seem to have a problem with allowing the Vita's PSP emulator to run old games without the restrictions.
i can't confirm that but makes sense, right? no i think adding an official option for people would over complicate things, i understand why they didn't. frankly the damn thing should have ran @ 333 MHz at launch. it would have been a more impressive piece of technology and we probably would have seen more PS2 ports considering the PSP @ 333 MHz is actually almost as powerful as a PS2, within the ballpark anyway (given the fact the PSP only has to render half the resolution). PS2 ports like Battlefront II ran like ass on PSP because of the 222 MHz. on 333 MHz it actually ran about as well as the PS2 version.

MrSmadSmartAlex
24th July 2016, 11:42 PM
Well for serious competition, you play in time trial/speed lap/zone mode, not mess about in multiplayer. Those modes were where I spent most of my time on Pulse.
Online mode was fine when it was working properly (as long as you avoided contact with other ships for the most part), but yeah, not very reliable.

That's correct, I don't feel very strongly about it. I appreciate the details, but they're not my focus, gameplay is.


Yeah, it definitely should have always been 333MHz, but I guess they were worred about battery life compared to the DS (because of their genius idea of using optical media in a handheld :lol), thought 2/3 power would be enough because it was still more than the DS had, and made the wrong call.