View Full Version : Ai

16th February 2008, 11:37 AM
Hi guys (and gals (if you insist))
This is the place to comment on what you love and loathe about Pulse's AI! Vent your steam at it, or just praise it, if you want, I don't mind.

I've seen thoughts on the AI all over this place so here's their proper place.

For example,
I hate it when the AI push me around the track, often into a wall or away from a pad, and I can't push them back!
Also, I shot at one (rockets) and it moved out of the way, then when they had passed it, it moved back again! Seeing as this was virtually point-blank range, the AI must've cheated.
Thirdly, I really hate it when I have one AI ship pushing into my side, I'm resisting and then I go over the weapon pad, and the AI gets the weapon, and 50% of the time, if not more, they shoot me with it!

Do feel free to post here any comments about Pulse's AI, if you need to, refer to Pure's too but only if you have to. IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT PURE'S AI, DO IT HERE (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=20):evil

I welcome your replies!

17th February 2008, 12:02 AM
I welcome the challenge.

the hard AI is the only way to race.

it's very feisty.

17th February 2008, 09:38 AM
You are right!
However, I sometimes find easy harder than hard.

A challenge, it may be, but most of the time, I come 1st either that or I blow up! This is using the FEISAR remember, the turtle ship.

17th February 2008, 02:56 PM
I'd prefer it if the racers on hard were actually faster round the track than more trigger happy. Once/if you get through the thick crowd early on and can keep off the walls its pretty much smooth sailing.

18th February 2008, 02:01 PM
Yeah, I too wish they were a little less trigger happy and a bit better racers. The times I come in 2-8 fade in comparison to the times I come in 1 or boom. Also, I've not seen them do a single barrel roll, ever, so if I get to do one or two clean ones per lap it's a guaranteed win, even if I go over the course like a pinball.

Also noticed that when they nudge you and then you go over the weapon pad closest, but because they are just a fraction ahead of you or something they get the weapon. That is quite annoying.

I guess the whole bad racer thing comes from the pack racing idea, in Pure they were more drawn out, but you had to work more to catch up to number one. In Pulse it's more fun to be in the pack (unless they're blasting you three ways from sunday), but once you get through them and out of weapon range you are pretty much home safe. Of course the whole pack racing thing does mean that unlike in Pure the same team doesn't win each and every race in tournaments. In Pulse you really see that the ships better suited to a track tend to go better on those tracks, which is cool.

18th February 2008, 02:14 PM
I love the pack racing and that the AI finally get to turbo start each time. I didn't play Pulse on Hard once I heard it only affected how often they fired. I find the AI stupid enough on Medium difficulty and I don't really feel guilty at all about taking the easier option to play through the game.
If the rating applied to how they actually raced, it would be lovely. Maybe that is something for the next wipeout??:sonar

I've seen the AI barrel roll but only occasionally, and I have to stay with the pack long enough on the first lap to see it.

19th February 2008, 10:00 AM
Please keep the comments coming!

I'm glad to see that people share my views on the AI.

I don't think the AI actually uses a turbo-start more gets off the grid faster so that you have to work your way through them individually!
If you sit around at the top menu section long enough it starts up a 100% AI race. Watch the ships carefully and you'll see a small flash from the last ship's engine trail as it turbo-starts, but not from the others!

Normally on Pure, the AI was so slow to start that I lead in <5s

Rapier Racer
19th February 2008, 08:31 PM
You just need to learn the tracks, after that it doesn't matter if you get shot at for 2 laps straight you can still win easily on hard mode.

20th February 2008, 10:46 AM
Just doing Metropia Black Phantom online, I stopped three times to let the other guy catch up so I could quake him, stuffed the jump on the last lap, lost about 10 secs, and won easily

20th February 2008, 02:57 PM
What does that have to do with the AI? Did I miss something?

20th February 2008, 03:41 PM
I spotted this by Nadia Elenova:

Ok, I've just played a tournament, rapier, medium difficulty, track: Moa Therma Black. I was first place, then I got hit by a missile, my ships stops (as always) and then I got another missile hit (well, annoying but may happen). Then, when my ship is ABOUT to start moving again I got ANOTHER MISSILE HIT from the last ship. At this time my ship is about to explode, but I continue the race, pick up a weapon and absorve it. When I passed the last ship, IT SHOOTED ANOTHER MISSILE and set me about to blow (and my ship too). So I got last place in the last lap just because the AI is WAY TOO UNFAIR. If it were in hard difficulty, what the AI would have done? Wait behind a corner aiming backwards with a Plasma loaded? Don't **** me!

I've seen some pretty mean AI work on pure and pulse but that about takes the biscuit.

20th February 2008, 06:29 PM
I don’t understand why people are complaining about the AI being “unfair” or “trigger-happy”. Boo-hoo! What? Did you expect the other ships to lay down flower petals for you on the way to the checkered flag? SUCK IT UP! I appreciate the difficult AI because that’s exactly what you’ll get if you race against human opponents. Big ups to the WipEout Pulse production team for the AI.

20th February 2008, 06:57 PM
Ive got nothing against the AI being more aggressive but im on the track to race and they cant keep up with a reasonably decent pilot. They should have had your opponents putting in quicker times rather than firing an extra missile.

Rapier Racer
20th February 2008, 09:20 PM
A decision had to be made I guess and they choose heavier weapons fire, which is what you'd get from a human opponent anyway. Where does the line get drawn with these things? Guaranteed if they made the AI fly faster someone would start a thread complaining that they were too fast.

Nadia Elenova
20th February 2008, 09:22 PM
// Kansas - I'm afraid there's a big misunderstood here, I've just said that in "10 things I hate about pulse", as something that exceptionally happened to me and (in that moment) I hated. :p (<---note the smile). Don't take it so seriously, it's funny. :p <---smile again. ok, try not to be so rude unless you know what are you talking about, thanks.

// P52Smith - I know it wasn't with bad intention, no need to worry. ;)

Well, this is off topic but as I was mentioned before, I was forced to make the point clear, thanks for the moderators patience. :clap

Back on topic - I think the AI actually races better in hard, not only more trigger happy, but it's true there's not a big difference.
:p <--- another smile (just in case)

20th February 2008, 10:12 PM
understood, buddy :)

21st February 2008, 02:18 AM
So far, I'm finding the Pulse AI to be absolutely fantastic.
There's sideshifting, changing lines for pads, wallscraping, big scrums, serious and reasonable firestorms, and they can even put in some fair times.
True, even on Hard a Head-To-Head isn't a huge challenge on a track you know, but if you don't really know the track, the AI will just dazzle you with his speed and finesse. Brilliant!

This is the first time the AI has impressed me since W3O/LS104. Big ups to the dev team!

22nd February 2008, 09:56 AM
Task: I've not played WipEout before Pure so I can't comment on that but I am liking Pulse's more than Pure's. I've not yet encountered anything like Nadia Elenova has (sorry about that by the way, should have asked first, will do next time) on Pulse, but this was very annoying in Pure, hit 3 mines, rocket up the tail-pipe and a quake just to round off, what do I pick up when I hit a pad, Disruption bolt! ANNOYING!

Rapier Racer: You are most likely right, what is needed is an option to set their speed between the max for that class (very hard) through a total of 7 levels (very hard, hard, medium-hard, medium, medium-easy, easy and very easy) to about 21 below the max for that class (about 3kph per stage), in addition to the current difficulty levels for weapon usage.

Keep the comments coming, as I said earlier, complain or praise, feel free to have your say!:nod

23rd February 2008, 02:44 PM
You just need to learn the tracks, after that it doesn't matter if you get shot at for 2 laps straight you can still win easily on hard mode.
Learning the tracks. That's my problem. :)
I believe there is something simple that SL really should have done, so that the learning curve feels right in each difficulty level: lowering the Time Trials and Speed Laps medals times for medium and hard.
There are only a few TTs in Pulse where I didn't get the gold medal the first time I tried. That's a shame because in Pure I could learn the track while trying to get the gold, which usually took a while. I used to play TT first, then once I got gold, I switched to SR.
I could use the race box and practice, but I'm stubborn, that's the other problem. :)
I had hoped that the race campaign would teach me how to play regardless of the difficulty level, and without having to come back to an event once you got gold on it.

24th February 2008, 09:50 PM
Once I completed it at medium (thought it was safer than hard) I went back and did it on hard with much success!
Having started a new profile I can see how the AI learns the circuit, they start by taking every corner exactly but eventually they cut the corners off a lot more.
AI stands for Artificial Intelligence but the AI isn't that intelligent, on a straight, they will fly into bombs or mines despite ample time to avoid them. STUPID!:sonar
Also, they will fire cannons as soon as they get them, aimlessly

Rapier Racer
26th February 2008, 05:06 PM
Not just cannons, I've observed the lead AI ship firing off a quake when it had a substantial gap between itself and me. I think it's all probabilities as Colin explained somewhere else. Sometimes that hard to believe though when 3 AI craft are going along and the one at the back has a leech beam, it doesn't fire until a split second after I passed it.

1st March 2008, 02:48 PM
I generally hold back if I see they have a leech beem ready to go until they've fired, sometimes for over a whole lap!

I finally saw an EG-X attempt a barrel roll on Vertica White's small jump. It was in Head to Head mode, lap 1, venom and surprisingly enough, it didn't work and I simply cut the corner and overtook it.

Which reminds me, why on Earth does the AI ALWAYS take the stupid route like the Autopilot rather than accross the three sped pads and cut the corner, even after a total of 700 laps (personally (remember time trial and speed lap)) they don't even think about it. I always win on Vertica hands down, White or Black as a result of this style of idiocy

Rapier Racer
4th March 2008, 05:45 PM
The AI needs to fly like that, you are not thinking of the poor defenseless causal gamer who gets slaughtered as it is. :rolleyes:

master bruce
9th March 2008, 03:05 AM
What's the difference between easy and hard AI?

I thought I read someone saying that the only difference is that hard AI is more aggressive with weapons.

My question is do hard AI race better as well...it seems to be in my opinion. I've gotten all golds on easy, and now I'm playing on hard, the computer seems to be much faster...even when I have piranha, they seem very fast.

Rapier Racer
9th March 2008, 03:44 PM
I think they actually race faster as well from what I could see.

master bruce
9th March 2008, 05:48 PM
ok cool, I thought I was done with the game, looks like I have more work to do :)

9th March 2008, 06:39 PM
Yeah, I was having a ton of trouble with this tournament on hard and I gave my psp up to my friend's girl. She was playing some easy eliminator and then I tried the tournament again. I was blazing through it, easy firsts after the first lap on all the tracks...then I realized it was still on easy difficulty. I tried it again on hard and returned to getting slammed. I think that was grid 10 or 11 tournament, can't remember now.

11th March 2008, 07:16 PM
Ironic isn't it that I actually find easy harder than hard

Don't ask why, I don't know.

I normally win anyway so no worries there!

I hate to tell you this taqili but I have got golds on all events at hard somehow. I left the last phantom grid and ignored Outpost 7 for a while but decided that I'd better give them a go.

And I blew up, what a suprise, the AI make so many mistakes though at phantom that if I can hold my ship in 1 piece I can win on all (non-DLC (I don't have them yet)) tracks!

Look forward to more comments on such matters! Thanks guys!