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Typhy
15th January 2008, 05:01 PM
It is clear that at the moment Piranha is the craft of choice for setting fast Speed Lap and Time Trial times - the top 3 times on the rankings leader boards are almost always held by this pilots who have used this ship.

However, to achieve this speed handling and more importantly acceleration is sacrified. Up untill now Icaras has been dismissed by the majority of people due to the wafer thin shielding (fair enough), but with the higher speed coming out of the turns, and the slightly better ease of use - although we've yet to see for ourselves - wouldn't Icaras be able to beat all of the Piranha times set to date, as presumably all the highest ranked lap times have all been piloted perfectly?

Maybe the current records will have to be re-set, at least by those determined enough?

Typhy

phl0w
15th January 2008, 07:40 PM
I beg to differ: On Phantom the Piranha hardly shows up in the top5, unless I am in it :D. @other classes: don't know and don't care.

To give my two cents: Just because Icaras has got the magic 10 at speed too, doesn't mean it's as fast as a Piranha. IIRC there's a whole bunch of stats for each craft where the ones physically belonging together are combined into one category, like acceleration. For reference see the deceleration bug in Pure's Triakis.
So far, the Piranha is the fastest ship, it tops out at 810kph without a BP or BR and hardly loses speed in corners unless they are acute angled.
IF the Icaras is as fast as a Piranha AND can carry velocity better through corners than, yeah, that will result in a higher average velocity, thus better times. Or, God forbid, it actually is faster than the mighty Piranha (I'll probably kill myself then ;) )...
Shields are irrelevant in speed laps anyways...

Ah, well, we'll see. I hope the Piranha remains the fastest hip.

Flashback Jack
15th January 2008, 09:09 PM
Indeed, and I will tell you from experience that the top speed advantage is far above that of the advantage gained from acceleration (which invariably is characteristic of ships with mediocre top speeds).

In cases where I struggle to set top times in my AG-SYS, I consistently blow away my best efforts even with a sloppy Piranha performance.

- F

Frances_Penfold
15th January 2008, 10:17 PM
I have only put time so far in AGS and Pirrhana, so can't speak for most ships (and obviously not the ones that haven't been released yet!)

But yeah, I kinda suspect that in a year's time, that for time trial and speed lap competition, Pirrhana will fill all of the top slots :(

Eventually folks will learn to control it and the advantage provided for overall speed will outweight the downsides, at least for single player time trial stuff.

Au_Xtr3me
15th January 2008, 11:10 PM
Piranha only makes sense in the slower speed classes unless you're a Piranha guru. I found Piranha impossible to fly in the Phantom speed. AG-Sys is the team I set my best Phantom records on, most of them are in the top 10 and some in the top 5

Piranha will easily dominate in the lower speed classes even against Icarus, not because of stats but because of popularity.

Frances_Penfold
15th January 2008, 11:55 PM
I agree, I think Pirrhana controls like a giant turd-- I can't use it worth crap in Rapier and Phantom. But hard-core wipers will eventually figure it out and probably use it to great effect.

In the short term, I think ANY of the ships can be used to place in, say, the top 10 or 20 positions in time trials or speed laps. It'll be 6 months or a year, however, before time trialing really becomes serious business. And unless Sony Liverpool did an unprecedented job in balancing the abilities of the ship, it is probably inevitable that a few ships will end up dominating the top slots.

That's my opinion, anyway-- I guess we'll find out in the coming weeks and months ;)

Au_Xtr3me
16th January 2008, 12:51 AM
I think Pirrhana controls like a giant turd

It rolls off the Start like a turd too!!! :turd Even with a boost... like pushing a giant turd!:eek

ZenDJiNN
16th January 2008, 01:47 AM
I always thought that it was a fat lump of a ship, but after reading this thread, i decided to try it out on a few tracks at different levels. I was quite surprised to say the least. :)

Even on Platinum Rush White the Piranha was very good (Rapier Class) and wasn't heavy or lumpy at all, which i expected it to be, I also tried it on a number of other, quite difficult, tracks, and it performed well on ALL of them, especially O7, which i'm crap at.

I can now see why many people use this ship over others, especially at the lower levels. I didn't try it at Phantom (I'm not that good yet) but it still thrashed it's way through in Rapier class without any fuss or bother, and i didn't find myself doing too much wall bouncing! :g

I think i'll start using the Piranha a bit more.... it's growing on me! 8)

Au_Xtr3me
16th January 2008, 02:16 AM
I think i'll start using the Piranha a bit more.... it's growing on me! 8)

My God... I've come to a revelation!
It's not a turd...

It's Mold!

Though I must agree, it works very well in speed lap at lower speeds because of its higher speed (?)

Piranha under threat? No way, its probably one of the teams that will perform well. Teams like Triakis, Harimau, EG-X, and Icaras will need to watch out.

phl0w
16th January 2008, 02:23 PM
I like the Piranha's handling best, and for what it's worth: It handles much better than in Pure, so there you go.
If SL really managed it to balance the ships this year than it's unpredictable which will end up on top, of course, as each and everyone is capable of reaching tracks' limits- which I doubt, though, i.e. that they're balanced. As of now, I am best with my Piranha, even on O7. I can overtake my Piranha Ghost with an Assegai in those 180s but it catches up on one of the two following long straights. Then again, I have hardly tried with Assegai. Of course there might be ways, which I haven't figured out yet, to take those turns faster even with a Piranha. Who knows...

Au_Extr3me, just don't jump to conclusions like Piranha is good in slower speed classes but not on Phantom because of the way it handles just because you can't handle it. Ships' handling has always been a matter of getting used to and taste.

Au_Xtr3me
16th January 2008, 11:02 PM
Good point, but its not handling I have an issue with (handling just measures turning sensitivity), it's the sluggish thrust that you get out of it, top speed is a killer though.

Have you found that the AI appears restricted from traveling at full speed?, even on slow ships (AG-sys, FEISAR, Goteki 45) it is incredibly easy to overtake the AI ships.

Conclusion: Piranha worthwhile in TT, speed lap and multiplayer; less noticible top speed in single player single race (not that anyone should have difficulty)

AG-Sys :rock

sakerbax
17th January 2008, 12:12 PM
considering on time trials and speed laps u're wanting to do perfect laps and on a more pro side getting all pads and multiple br then y icaras has more thrust so he'll regain top speed faster after corners than the piranha and on those perfect conditions it should be the ship that allows the fastest time possible

Au_Xtr3me
17th January 2008, 10:25 PM
But the question is whether people will fly Icaras. Piranha looks a lot better (except from behind then it looks like a... :nod) than Icaras. In TT Icaras might outpace Piranha, but in speed lap where the first lap is really a warm up it will be user preference.

sakerbax
18th January 2008, 12:14 AM
if there's a possible diference on how much speed they loose during turns how can it not make a diference?

Au_Xtr3me
18th January 2008, 12:11 PM
Thrust might make that difference, but it is just one point, and at 7 T Icaras is under average. Thrust is really acceleration, so if you lose a fair bit of speed on a turn, then yes higher thrust will make a craft outpace Piranha.

sakerbax
18th January 2008, 01:01 PM
you seem to agree with me but at the same time leaving the feeling that you don't lol

Au_Xtr3me
18th January 2008, 01:05 PM
That's because I don't really like Icaras or Piranha, but I like Piranha more because it was always seen as SPEEEED! Icaras to me is like a cruise missile, fast but Kaboom. So my opinion is kinda biased, though honestly Icaras will have the edge in TT and Speed lap. (but I still like piranha more):g

Rapier Racer
19th January 2008, 07:15 PM
Piranha bring whats claimed to be the engine with the fasted top end performance since the return of professional AG Racing in 2197. None, except maybe Icaras with their own extreme power-plant, are going to argue the point

Suggests Icaras may very well be able to top Piranha, battle of the 10 speed ships eh? C'mon Icaras! Gut that fish.

Chrono
20th January 2008, 11:54 PM
The way I see it when Icarus gets released (in a later package) people will be starting to settle in to the leaderboards. Around when people are really refining their times, bam Icarus. I think it'll be a faster, and more responsive ship, especially for TT. All the top times are gonna have to redo all their times with Icarus. It's SL's way of increasing game interest =P.

I also think phl0w is dead on.

phl0w
29th February 2008, 12:48 PM
Now that it's out can someone confirm that Icaras is as fast as Piranha (making it the better ship)?

RJ O'Connell
29th February 2008, 03:14 PM
If the Weekly TT Thread times are anything to go by, certainly it's faster because of the boost in acceleration and handling.

But the packs aren't here yet so I'm just making short-sighted assumptions XD

wich
29th February 2008, 04:28 PM
They seem to max out at the same speed.

taqili
29th February 2008, 04:54 PM
ICARAS LOVE

down with piranha :D

Dogsword
2nd March 2008, 03:44 PM
More people are gonna use Piranha cause you gotta pay for Icaras

taqili
3rd March 2008, 03:14 AM
aye, but Icaras is the win.