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View Full Version : why do so many people not like outpost 7?



wickedwill1993
2nd January 2008, 04:10 PM
ive heard lots of people saying they hate outpost 7 but i like it. i think its quite a good track and far better then tech de ra which alot of people like.
do u like it or not?

Rapier Racer
2nd January 2008, 04:15 PM
Firstly, I like Outpost 7, but I guess a lot of people don't because its a little on the hard side, I wonder if any of the devs took a Triakis or Piranha through it at Phantom? :g Also, it is not better than Tech De Ra so neeeehh.

Hellfire_WZ
2nd January 2008, 04:24 PM
I've taken a Triakis through it at Phantom :p

It is a good track, it's just one of those that takes a lot of getting used to I think, a bit like Silverstream did...

... although I never liked Silverstream ;)

HISHO[JP]
2nd January 2008, 04:39 PM
I think it's easier than citta nuova.
(citta nuova is the most difficult track in Pure!!)

So I'll like outpost 7 better than citta nuova.

Hacker X
2nd January 2008, 04:44 PM
Random high-skill tracks are a part of the Wipeout universe. I haven't gotten to Outpost 7 yet, but look forward to laying down the law with Qirex on it. :)

Rapier Racer
2nd January 2008, 04:45 PM
Hmmm I thought Citta was annoying more than difficult personally (Who likes Triakis billboard right in your face if you don't nose down in time?). I think Outpost 7 will be very difficult at Phantom, it is the only Pulse track I've not currently attempted in Phantom class.

Vincent_VII
2nd January 2008, 04:46 PM
I have settled into the opinion that Outpost 7 White is a good track to race human opponents on but horrible for racing against AI or doing time trials.

The Black version is a mess, however. Maybe if I spent some more time with it I would come to appreciate it. But why would I when there are so many better tracks in the game?

And tech de ra is an excellent track. It is Pulse's "Fuji Speedway." Lots of high speed laughs before the track throws you into some narrow bends and nasty corners. I laugh my ass of everytime I race on it.

Dogg Thang
2nd January 2008, 05:04 PM
I've never had a problem with the layout of Outpost 7. There's only one spot that still trips me up consistantly (after the two u-turn bends just approaching the finish line - can't remember if that's white or black).

But it's one of those ones where, if you don't get out in front almost immediately, the AI will make your life a living hell and it's quite common you can go from full shield to blowing up without even realising what just happened. Like Citta Nouva only more so.

In terms of layout in Phantom, I actually think it's easier than Citta as it doesn't have any bouncy sections.

Mad-Ice
2nd January 2008, 05:13 PM
I still have a lot of work to do on Outpost7 to really understand the track and it's flow. However the thing I really don't like is the skillcut, because it is not rewarding. I think a skillcut should be rewarding because it is difficult and therefore it should be faster and it is not.

If you go underneath the skillcut you will find a faster way and on the black run you can even do a BR if you take the left side with the speedpad when coming out of the tunnel next to the skillcut.

If you look at Anulpha Pass in Pure that is a skillcut like it suppossed to be. Difficult, fast and therefore rewarding.

The skillcut in The Konstruct black should have been a mag-strip. It is too floathy. On phantom when you even pitch down you will sometimes hit the ceiling of the track. Not good!!!!

Hellfire_WZ
2nd January 2008, 05:16 PM
Dogg, that'll be the black run you're referring to, the last left-right chicane is really sharp and catches me out nearly every time.

I agree about the alternate path too, it's much easier to remain underneath and you lose no time in doing so. In fact, on the white run, the dip at the start is a fantastic place to use a turbo and barrel roll.

Eenieboy
2nd January 2008, 06:00 PM
The track isn't as hard as it is annoying. Not much just to go crazy down straights and the big 180 turns are unique to the rest, requiring an almost full stop at times, which ppl (includin me) find kinda dull. I suppose

Stardragon88
2nd January 2008, 06:09 PM
I rather like it I suppose. Kind of odd though, that the bridge doesn't really confer any significant advantage for the trouble it takes to navigate down it. I personally prefer to drive off halfway and get a BR in the time it takes to land. :)

I don't get how the AI and autopilots do the 180 turns though :? I snagged an autopilot once and literally turned around at near full speed taking the inside of the turn as well. Even with the airbrakes full on and a sideshift I've yet to replicate that.

@Mad-Ice: Aye I think it needs a mag-strip too. I've given up trying to BR before landing on it because often I'll fly off the outer edge or overcorrect and slam into the inner wall.

Edit: I personally really hate Basilico! Feels too short for my liking, and some of the corners have rather odd (dark) lighting, especially that section with the flashing blue light. Makes it hard to judge distances.

rageagainstgeorge
2nd January 2008, 06:18 PM
I hate it. Both the black and white runs.

It seems more of a technical exercise than a race track. The whole track doesn't flow at all.

I loved Citta Nuova. Something about that track made it very rewarding to master.

Chrono
2nd January 2008, 06:28 PM
I don't like Outpost 7. Of all the tracks, it has the most amatuer layout. It feels like something a high school kid would design (two hard turns and bottle neck the racers in a bunch of turns that seem drastically more complex than they are, YEA AWESOME DUDE). Why would I want to race there when there are 22 other amazing tracks to race on?

QirexAAX
2nd January 2008, 06:30 PM
I've been so distracted by the skin editor I haven't even unlocked Outpost 7 yet. I do like the name though.

Thanks to me for my profound insight. :g

phl0w
2nd January 2008, 06:39 PM
I liked it from the very beginning. Mostly because it's one of the very few tracks in Pulse that actually has some character. Most of Pulse tracks are- as said- generic and too similar to each other. Among others like Platinum Rush, Vertica or Arc Prime, Outpost 7 shines with uniqueness and style. Besides, there are only so many bends in any WO that feel as good as the second 180° on Phantom where your ship, propelled by three(!) BPs from 0- 800, fights centrifgual forces to scrape through the following sweeping right, hardly under control as is, only to get acclerated again by another BP. I'm loving it!

EDIT: Since Basilico was mentioned: Once you get the flow on Phantom it is a blast! Best 15 seconds (yeah, if only, I'm barely sub 17) in a racing game- right after Talon's Reach ^^

Ash-Omen
2nd January 2008, 06:44 PM
i love outpost 7, great place too feisar people and pwn hackers :g

mdhay
2nd January 2008, 07:09 PM
Amen to that, Ash-Omen!

Out.7 is good when you overshoot the first chicane, the game puts you back onto the track ahead of it!

Otherwise, its so - so.

stin
2nd January 2008, 07:11 PM
Well, I do really like outpost 7 on a black run but not a white run because it`s slightly a bit harder on Phantom level. Flash Class, I don`t like Black and I do like White! Go figures:brickwall

I will get to the point, try and not to absorbs while racing on both sides?:robot

stevie:beer

Frances_Penfold
2nd January 2008, 07:16 PM
the thing I really don't like is the skillcut, because it is not rewarding. I think a skillcut should be rewarding because it is difficult and therefore it should be faster and it is not.

If you go underneath the skillcut you will find a faster way and on the black run you can even do a BR if you take the left side with the speedpad when coming out of the tunnel next to the skillcut.


Heh. I predict this section of the track will become a barrel rollers paradise once folks get more experience with the game-- at least in time trials.

The short walls on the bridge are very ride-able and can be used to initiate at least two barrel rolls along it's length. You can also get a barrel roll by dropping off the edge. So I'm guessing that, with practice, experienced pilots will be getting 3-4 barrel rolls through that entire section?

I find the entire track to be challenging-- it'll be interesting to see how it gets handled once folks get serious about time trials :)

phl0w
2nd January 2008, 07:32 PM
If I'm not mistaken, the entire bridge is a mag-strip, right? While the rails are not, I think only 2 are possible, one from mounting the rail and the second from dropping off it (to the lower section, that is). Maybe there are 4 possible in theory, but the added speed means taking a different line, skipping BR spots in the process. Much like Tech De Ra. There are four ramps, yet you skip 2 of them. Then again, what do I know about TT-ing, I don't even hold a record :beer

kowareta|vojeet
2nd January 2008, 07:50 PM
WipEout Pulse - Impossible is Nothing (Outpost 7 - Phantom)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRwezTKL2-k

*cough*

Hyper Shadow
2nd January 2008, 09:11 PM
I think the only thing that annoys me is the double hairpin. The sharp corners are fine, challenging almost, but I just can't keep the speed up round those hairpins to keep up with the AI.

I may grow to love it later on, but for now, it annoys me.

Flashback Jack
2nd January 2008, 09:55 PM
Start the turn wide, let off the throttle a bit and double sideshift. Best possible way to clear the turns quickly.

- F

Hyper Shadow
2nd January 2008, 10:08 PM
Thats close to what I've tried doing, although I've airbraked then sideshifted, then bounced off the wall. Practice makes perfect (laps) eh?

WindyMan
3rd January 2008, 09:21 AM
Jeez, Outpost 7 Black is the most diabolical creation I've ever seen. There are little protrusions on the outside of most of the final turns, so if you go just a little bit wide you'll run right into them and come to a dead stop. Once you get into it though, the flow of it is awesome. Especially on Phantom!

If only my times would update, I'd be right up there at the top...

Dogg Thang
3rd January 2008, 09:58 AM
Yeah, I think Outpost 7 requires real work to enjoy. For me, that's not a bad thing. It's good. Many classic tracks were really daunting and awkward until really mastered and, at that point, the real enjoyment comes - Silverstream, Vostok Island, even Manor Top with all its 90 degree turns.

And it seems to me that poor ol' SL can't catch a break here. Everything got very smooth in Fusion and many felt the tracks weren't challenging enough. And even with the Nouva, in general tracks in Pure were smooth too. Not as much but some people were still hankering for more challenging tracks. They delivered that with Outpost 7 and now others say it doesn't flow.

It's all personal opinion of course but it sort of puts the devs in a no-win situation.

For me, I like a mix. I do enjoy the smooth tracks and thing both Pure and Pulse have many challenges to offer in the tracks but I'd still always love a few demon tracks in there, especially towards the end.

zargz
3rd January 2008, 11:17 AM
I like O7.
still haven't raced it in rapier/phantom though.

o_o'

phl0w
3rd January 2008, 12:50 PM
I raced Outpost7 on Phantom yesterday and called it a night with a very low 24' or high 23', can't remember. Point is, the track does flow. Just not like most of other WO tracks do. While most WO tracks flow such as you can feel the track's entity, requiring a constant level of high concentration, Outpost 7 on the other hand seems a bit clustered. It's really just 3 sections glued together, 4 if you find the bridge challenging. While racing I found myself jumping from section to section in my concentration, intuitive breaking the track up, just looking at individual parts and their technical requirement to clear them cleanly. I can see that this may not be that kind of flow that many prefer, but in a clean lap the craft definitely flows nicely, it's just that it's achieved by your mind's not flowing.
Hope that's clear somehow :)

Rapier Racer
3rd January 2008, 06:24 PM
I like the idea of the bridge, it might not save you much time but, in multiplayer choosing to use it or not could save you from a quake or other such nasties, not including however the evil Leech Beam which can be locked on by a ship below.

Sausehuhn
3rd January 2008, 06:45 PM
@ phl0w

That's the problem I've with Outpost 7. To me, it doesn't feel like one track. It's more like "we want a Citta Nuova 180° alike... and the bridge from that Delta track... and some turns like we had on Sebenco Peak... and some like Blue Ridge".
So they took all these elements together and that's it.
I got used to the track somehow (at least the White one), but I see myself bouncing from side to side sometimes and losing engery. I really absorb a lot there. Combined with the aggressive AI (the weapon combinations they fire are really no fun anymore) the track can turn into hell.

The 180° turns work well, though. At least if I go off the gas, make a huge airbrake turn and then a sideshift to turn into the middle of the track again. I know that costs time and speed, but it's the only way I can do these turns in Pulse.

Hacker X
3rd January 2008, 08:37 PM
Hey, if we were able to eventually best Silver Stream and Citta Nuova, then I'm sure we'll all eventually be posting killer times for Outpost 7 in the future. I used to hate Citta Nuova with a passion, but after a lot of practice, it actually became one of my favorite tracks to race. :D

Frances_Penfold
3rd January 2008, 08:38 PM
If I'm not mistaken, the entire bridge is a mag-strip, right? While the rails are not, I think only 2 are possible, one from mounting the rail and the second from dropping off it (to the lower section, that is). Maybe there are 4 possible in theory, but the added speed means taking a different line, skipping BR spots in the process.

The bridge itself is not a magstrip. There are rails at the beginning and the end of the bridge, both are useable for barrel rolls-- and as you indicate, you can drop off as well.

I'm pretty sure you can mount the bridge on a rail, do a barrel roll, ride the bridge to a suitable point, drop off, do a barrel roll, hit some topography on the track floor on the turbo, go airborne, do a barrel roll... I guess that's three BRs in the bridge section. Not clear that it's actually FASTER to take such a convoluted route... but for the freaks that like barrel rolls, I suppose it could be a good time all around ;)

Rapier Racer
3rd January 2008, 09:03 PM
I thought the bridge itself was a Magstrip? See here, looks like one to me.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b114/Assegai/wo_20071217_193036.jpg

Sausehuhn
3rd January 2008, 09:24 PM
The bridge is a magstrip. I think that's also the reason why you don't fall of that easy.

Hellfire_WZ
3rd January 2008, 09:25 PM
Correct, the bridge is a mag-strip. I've never really been able to get anything out of it myself, I've always got faster times going underneath.

EDIT: Damn you and your quick typing :p

phl0w
3rd January 2008, 09:34 PM
Stop confusing me, the both of you! :lol
I just double-checked and the bridge IS a mag-strip, its rails though, as I mentioned in my initial post, are not, so it's possible to gain some airtime mounting the bridge via the rails, just like Francis said.

There's even a ramp onto a rail at the other side of the bridge making it possible to BR down and into the following left sweeper.
I tried something: Since a horizontal mag-strip holds the ship pretty tight on track, even if you don't follow the bridge's line (on Phantom at least), you can BR straight over it, onto the next rail and BR down. Now, if that's not faster than crawling at the lower floor I don't know what is.^^

EDIT: I answered to Francis and RR, you do type fast, Sausehuhn and Hellfire ^^

Lance
3rd January 2008, 10:15 PM
Using the bridge sounds like urban skateboarding.

phl0w
3rd January 2008, 10:46 PM
...which it kinda is.

I tried various ways dealing with the bridge and think it is faster to stay low, do a BR or two down there and be gone. The time you're losing on Phantom going up the rails and down again is way too much, we're speaking of vertical movement here afterall- can't be good ;)
Without much trying I got down to 22'91, although I screwed up the 180°s (With a Piranha it's like flying through Humus there)

Back to the topic: I really can't understand what people don't like about O7. Maybe it's the many ways you can mess up a good run.

Rapier Racer
3rd January 2008, 10:54 PM
Also of course if you mess the bridge up and fall off you can make the most of it with a barrel roll

Frances_Penfold
3rd January 2008, 11:48 PM
Oh geez, you guys are absolutely right-- the bridge is a mag strip!!! Very sorry about that... it's appearance in the white version of the track is so drab and similar to the rest of the track that I didn't realize! I'm a dumb-ass :(


Since a horizontal mag-strip holds the ship pretty tight on track, even if you don't follow the bridge's line (on Phantom at least), you can BR straight over it, onto the next rail and BR down. Now, if that's not faster than crawling at the lower floor I don't know what is

That's an interesting idea I hadn't considered. Huh. There may be 4 or 5 reasonable options for taking that whole section ;)


The time you're losing on Phantom going up the rails and down again is way too much, we're speaking of vertical movement here afterall- can't be good ;)

Yeah, that makes sense. The story could be different for Venom or Flash, I suppose, where one's ship is going slow enough to accurately steer. I'll be interested to follow time trial developments on the OP7 track.


Using the bridge sounds like urban skateboarding.

Yeah, it's kinda bad... I almost didn't want to bring it up because it's not really a classical Wipeout strategy. I think, however, that if anything, barrel rolls are less useful in general in Wipeout Pulse than in Wipeout Pure. I only sense a few tracks where they can potentially be really abused-- OP7 black, OP7 white and Tech de Ra black (which has a series of low-riding walls that can be grinded like a skateboard). But maybe there are others that I have missed.

I guess my general sense about OP7 is that it's an interesting and fun track. The bridge adds an new element that is fun for both TTs and multiplayer. I'm glad that ALL of the tracks aren't so technical and convoluted but, as an outlier, it's a solid addition to the track roster.

Err, I can't imagine flying it on Phantom, however.

Shozovulnai
4th January 2008, 01:33 AM
I've only tried Outpost 7 White couple of times and at least the design of the track is quite interesting, really quirky and all. The first time I entered the double hairpin section I just flew contently to the corner out of the track. :D But yeah, this one needs some practicing.

But what I love in the track is the setting. Needless to say, I live in Finland and these little nods to this so-called land no-one's ever heard of make me laugh in popular culture. Conan O'Brien's visit and all that stuff. When I played WipEout Fusion and checked out the official site, I bursted to laughter when I found out that Xios was supposedly been manufactured here. And now this Outpost 7 incident.

I'm not here to promote Finland, I just wanted to point out this thing. Sure, it's a nice place to live in. I've never been in Lapland (the northernmost place of Finland where O7 is located) but I highly doubt that they will be building an anti-gravity race track there any time soon. :D

Lance
4th January 2008, 03:19 AM
Not exactly a venue where you could get a lot of spectators to attend.

Helicopter shuttles, anyone? New anti-grav highway system to Lappland/Sameland/Sapmi/whicheveritactuallyisland?

zargz
4th January 2008, 10:04 AM
Yeah, it's kinda bad... I almost didn't want to bring it up because it's not really a classical Wipeout strategy..you can say that again.


I think, however, that if anything, barrel rolls are less useful in general in Wipeout Pulse than in Wipeout Pure. I only sense a few tracks where they can potentially be really abused-- OP7 black, OP7 white and Tech de Ra black (which has a series of low-riding walls that can be grinded like a skateboard). But maybe there are others that I have missed..I hope not.

coz all of this BR BS O7 is starting to move way back in my list :mr-t

KANDANG
4th January 2008, 04:07 PM
hehe i used to hate outpost7 black
so i kept playing it and now i enjoy it alot.

finally brought it, Phantom TT best race below the 2 minute mark :p (1:59.63) and white at (1:57.55)

probably with more plays, you can beat outpost at 1:53

:guitar

if you're able to get the piranha / triakis ahead of the lighter crafts throughout the rest of the map while being offset by the two 180 turns, you'll be able to get a better time.

phl0w
5th January 2008, 02:46 PM
22'55 is a very good time, Kandang. I'm at 22'61 with my Piranha right now. Lots of wall-touching though.
Were do you use your Turbo? Before the bridge I take the right BP, stay on the lower section, raise my ship's nose, do a BR, pass the ramp on the left side, go over the BP and into the narrow section, another BP there and when that wears off I fire the Turbo to squeeze my ship through wall and last BP, which I purposely skip in the process.

Statistics now show O7 as my favourite track :dizzy It's a b*tch at first but it grows and you just can't stop! So many things to worry about, so many places to screw up.

P.S. Those 180°s feature a design I wish Tech de Ra had. The walls are solid and can't be mounted. They make you wanna kill yourself when you take them to tight and crash into them for the nth time, but that's the beauty of it :) No stupid grinding+BR there.

KANDANG
5th January 2008, 10:53 PM
sounds like almost the same line that i take there on white
have yet to test the bridge , you can do a single / dual BR via bridge
and then use your turbo at last stretch.

having troubles yet on black with piranha? :g

Vincent_VII
6th January 2008, 03:32 AM
I have not been well (still not) but I decided to fire up Pulse and give O7 a go again tonight. I am still scraping like crazy but something just clicked. Black is definitely not a mess - I take back what I said about it. I think I like it better than White now. There is a definite flow... It feels very old skool WipEout now that I'm not afriad of it.

ZenDJiNN
7th January 2008, 01:43 PM
Having only just unlocked Outpost 7 (White) i was expecting something really bad after reading all the posts.... :) But i like this track, a lot! It's quite hard at first, and that double turn thing really had me stumped on the first race (until i finally sussed out what it was) and now i love it.

I think there are so many great tracks in Pulse, and all of the ones that i disliked a while ago, are now becoming great tracks (Like De Konstrukt for instance) as i get to know them better! :)

The only thing that i still don't like is that some of the tracks are just TOO dark (Basilico - White/Black for instance) and it makes it hard(er) to see what's coming up. But i'm sure that as i get to learn the track it'll get easier.

In short..... i think they're all fantastic! :)

Sausehuhn
7th January 2008, 04:11 PM
I've played 45 min non-stop O7 White today. Now I can say I do at least not dislike it anymore.

Nonetheless there's something with O7 I cannot really like. Maybe the track layout is the next Citta Nuova (though I think Citta is a pure (pun!) classic and I'm not sure if any of Pulse's track can beat it), but it may be the visuals that make the track a bit weird to me. Maybe it's the overdone neon use? I don't know.

Btw: I still don't like the bridge. To me it looks like put-on the track for no real reason. I noticed I made better times when I left out the bridge and didn't make the barrel roll. Probably because if you take the bridge you go uphill and downhill which adds a few meters.

phl0w
8th January 2008, 10:00 AM
Well the BR opportunity is there, with or without the bridge. The BP before the bridge gives you enough speed to tilt your nose up and gain enough height so that you can do a BR in the process. On Phantom the bridge is a waste of time and on the slow classes I'm not very fond of it either. As you said, it seems a bit put-on for no apparent reason other than force-feeding an alternative route to the track, which, however, lacks the characteristics and balance of one.
You're right about the excessive usage of neon and bloom effects. Sure, it creates a cold feeling and all, but that's the nature of the colour blue. As for being a track situated in Finland, that lets you feel winter, snow and permafrost, it completely fails (Silverstream and Sagarmatha captured that cold atmosphere really well- and that Fusion track, lost its name, did too!)

lunar
10th January 2008, 09:37 AM
To answer the original question, I had my first go on O7 last night and can only say what`s not to like about it? It`s tricky and will catch you out while you`re learning it, but it`s only on the Blue Ridge level of tricky, imo. The 2xCitta Nuova style v-turns are hilarious, and the mad bridge section is teasing for TT possibilities. The snow track is compulsory in a Wipeout game, and with the setting and environment it`s an excellent and original take on it, I think. :)

MAMUTH
10th January 2008, 03:26 PM
well...to be honest i have no problem with outpost 7. I think itīs great track...bit tricky first time,but enjoyable once you learn it. The track that really makes me mad is platinum rush (mainly black run) I had to do it on easy difficulty settings on phantom with pirhana,because I wasnīt able to finish it better than on 4th place. Dunno if itīs just a bug,or iīm too lame,but ai seems to be too agressive
sorry for my english

swift412
10th January 2008, 03:56 PM
I feel the same about the AI's aggressiveness on Platinum Rush. Just last night I was complaing about it in the chatroom.

DawnFireDragoon
11th January 2008, 10:37 PM
i'm not a fan of outpost 7, it's not a good track to end on, unlike sol 2 in pure, that was awesome. i enjoy a challenge, but the hairpin thing has been done and i honestly don't enjoy playing the track, it is a chore to fly and it reminds me of fusion course design somewhat :(
i'm hoping for some good downloadable tracks, as course design in pulse has not been amazing...it's not bad, it's just not amazing. and i also stand by my initial concerns on first seeing screenshots...far too much neon for a wipeout game.

BARTgai
12th January 2008, 11:39 PM
just unlocked outpost 7, two words: Holy Sh*t

i swear, that track is crazy. i kept getting killed on my like second lap because i spent the first one playing pinball with my ship. the only good thing about it is the way it looks. i love the snow with the ice cliffs and those big open sections with the windows.

Lion
13th January 2008, 11:13 AM
now that I've had a play in both directions, as crap as I am at it either way around...
White I like, but Outpost 7 black is a completely joyless affair for me.

Au_Xtr3me
15th January 2008, 12:43 PM
Citta Nova and Outpost 7 are the torturously technical tracks, and bring almost no joy at all. Except when you see your lap record in the top ten, and see that everyone else struggles worse then you.:D