View Full Version : concerning teams...

max damage
17th December 2007, 09:12 AM
what you think is hardest, to use a feisar versus a skilled piranha player or to use a piranha versus a skilled feisar player?

oh, and this is the "is feisar for teh n00bs?" thread :D

17th December 2007, 10:53 AM
The difference between teams is lowest in wipeout pulse than it has ever been, this is mostly to prevent one ship dominating the others in online play. regarding your question however, If we have a feisar pilot and pirahna pilot of equal skill, the feisar will most likely outdo the pirahna on the last 6 tracks (Amphinasium - Outpost 7) while Pirahna will take the lead on the first 6 (Talons Junction - Tech de ra), this is asuming the pilots are of equal skill and there are no weapons involved.

However, in your senario, a feisar versus a skilled pirahna will lose, regardless of track, and a piranha will lose versus a skilled feisar, regardless of track.

One could say feisar is the 'noob' ship, however to catch up with a piranha a feisar has to have a _perfect_ racing line, with perfect pitch control, meaning it's actualy just as hard to master feisar for non-technical tracks, as it is to master piranha for technical tracks.

Infact, upon further thought it could very well be a draw, or a photo finish. Feisar offers speed on corners, Piranha offers speed flat out.

Feisair is not 'for teh n00bs' by any means.

17th December 2007, 11:15 AM
Totally agree :nod

There are noticeable differences in Venom class, but as usual, the faster the class, the less diference there is between racers. it pretty much depends on your style, I got for fast heavy PIRANHA on slow classes, then AG-SYS, EG-X or even FEISAR on faster classes.

I think in Pulse there is a big diference as well between tracks, some are really bendy and technical and can severely change on their black versions, which is amazing since it adds a lot, they really feel different.

We'll see how it goes, it was a very good first weekend with a brand new version of Wipeout.

max damage
17th December 2007, 12:30 PM
oh perfect, a piranha and feisar reply :D
ok I think i will take the way of the Feisar ^^

17th December 2007, 12:47 PM
I'm amazed looking at the rankings in pulse just how many feisars are near the tops of the tables
I guess that cornering ability is paying off :)

17th December 2007, 12:57 PM
I started off with AG Systems, but then defected to Qirex because I felt I needed a little more straight line speed - plus the AG Systems' handling was a little too twitchy for me for just learning the tracks.

Might have to switch back for faster speed classes, though, when I'll have more than enough straight line speed to handle. :)

They all seem pretty well balanced, which was the point this time around.

17th December 2007, 01:08 PM
So the conclusion is that the teams are balanced, but still different?

17th December 2007, 01:10 PM
They are balanced, yet have distinctive personalities.

Dogg Thang
17th December 2007, 01:11 PM
I'm having a harder time with the twitchier teams too. I've been tempted to shove some sponge under my PSP's nub to create more resistance, which I think would make all the difference.

17th December 2007, 06:58 PM
The controls really ARE twitchy this time around, Joystiq's hands-on believes it makes the game easier and more accessable for newcomers, which I don't think. On Phantom the twitchy steering causes a lot of problems especially on mag strip sections that constantly need fine corrections. I'm having a hard time keeping my Piranha straight and it is the least twitchy of all, although it's much better than Pure's version. ^^ Love the new craft!

Rapier Racer
17th December 2007, 07:09 PM
Did I read a post by egg that said it took months of testing to balance the ships out? Clearly a huge amount of effort goes into it if so. No wonder Colin wasn't happy about Pures Triakis. I'll say congratulations on some fine balancing for Pulse based on what others are saying, I've only used one ship so far so can't tell personally :nod

17th December 2007, 07:50 PM
Totally going with Feisar 100%. I am very skilled with them, and I just couldn't use anything else.

Rapier Racer
17th December 2007, 08:23 PM
Why the Mirage avater then? :)

Flashback Jack
17th December 2007, 08:58 PM
I'm inclined to believe the balance is there, however curiously there's more than the fair share of Piranha's dominating the top spots on the leaderboards. Attractive little ship, innit? :)

- F

17th December 2007, 10:05 PM
Like others I`m really struggling with the sensitivity of the steering. Think I need a ship with handling of 1. It looks like speed might be a meaningful stat in this game - Pure was all about thrust (Triakis excepted). It`s going to be interesting times ahead as we see which ships come out on top.

17th December 2007, 10:13 PM
The speed rating plays a more important role than the handling rating in the lower speed classes, Piranha does have a slight advantage in venom (For time trial at least, the low acceleration makes weapons play a bit more dangerous), reducing to perfect balance once you get up to phantom.

18th December 2007, 09:30 AM
I'm inclined to believe the balance is there, however curiously there's more than the fair share of Piranha's dominating the top spots on the leaderboards. Attractive little ship, innit? :)

- F

Just wait till the Outpost 7 Phantom class rankings are getting uploaded.

18th December 2007, 02:39 PM
opposite to many others, by reading here, I'm totally ok with 8-9 handling, 6 is too stif for me! :D
that's why my favorite in pure became the puma1!

18th December 2007, 04:10 PM
The controls really ARE twitchy this time around, Joystiq's hands-on believes it makes the game easier and more accessable for newcomers, which I don't think. On Phantom the twitchy steering causes a lot of problems especially on mag strip sections that constantly need fine corrections.
most newcommers don't go as far as phantom. i have the impression that pulse is faster than pure anyway. but i had a hard time adjusting to the new handling aswell.

18th December 2007, 04:39 PM
I love Phantom mode, even though I'm a total WipEout n00b. I love the challenge. Games should be hard. You don't pay 50$ to rush throught a game. If the game plays like a movie (read: you don't have to do ****) it's not worth any money.

18th December 2007, 05:03 PM
That's the spirit! :nod

20th December 2007, 03:46 PM
hehe triakis dominating the phantom TT best lap / best race now

having trouble with outpost 7 black tho

20th December 2007, 06:17 PM
i have the impression that pulse is faster than pure anyway.

Are you kidding? If Zone Mode in Pure had shown speed classes like the one in Pulse does then Pulse's Phantom would really be Pure's Zen class. ;-)

27th December 2007, 09:49 AM
Why the Mirage avater then? :)

It looks like a Toblerone.

-And it's Green.

27th December 2007, 05:16 PM
Now THAT made me laugh, mdhay-- well played, sir.

Right now I'm mostly sticking with AGS as a compromise in handling and speed (between, say, Feisar and Pirrhana). Once I have beaten the game, and more teams are potentially available, I'll be looking around.

Anybody else in love with the appearance of the new zone ships? I sure am-- mostly using the zone models in racing even on non-zone game modes.

27th December 2007, 06:24 PM
I don't see why everyone is going on about Pirhana and Feisar. While speed and handling are the most important things you can have in the game, I don't feel the trade-offs are worth the maxed out stat in one category. That's why I prefer Assegai for racing, particularly in the Phantom class. Here's my thinking:

Pirhana: Highest top speed (10), offset by the worst handling (6) and the worst acceleration (6). A great ship for straight-line speed, but if you make a mistake, or more likely, get hit with a weapon, it's going to take a very long time to get back up to speed.

Feisar: Best handling (10), offset by slowest top speed (7). Can corner on a dime, only to get overtaken by most ships on the straights. Feisar pilots need to have a perfect racing line to win the day, but if their opponents in other ships have perfect racing lines, it can be very hard to stay close. That's my opinion, anyway.

Assegai: Awesome handling (9), combined with good acceleration (8) and top speed (8). I think this is the best combination, particularly when put up against the main competition above. While down 2 points on speed to Pirhana, I think the handling and accel differences will more than make up for that on most circuits. Assegai is statistically better than Feisar on the faster, straighter circuits, and in the twisty stuff, the one point difference between speed and handling would probably even things out over the course of a full lap, I feel.

Of course, I've left out the shield category. Assegai's excellent balance in performance is offset by the a weak shield (7). For me, this is not a problem. Obviously, shields aren't a problem in time trial modes, so that stat gets thrown out the window there. But in racing, my theory is that once you get out front, you'll never need to worry about shielding problems. Absorbing all weapons (don't drop many mines or bombs on Phantom when out in front, because you can run into your own weapons on the next lap!) and using shields and turbo to pull away and stay away.

Pirhana may be best ship for a few tracks, and Feisar may be the best ship for a few other tracks, but I feel Assegai is the ship for me on all tracks in all modes. Of course, the great thing about Wipeout is that all the different ships can compete, and that everyone can win in any ship! Everyone's got their favorites. But now you know why I've got mine!

28th December 2007, 05:00 AM
I too feel most comfortable in an Assegai, but in higher speed classes the increased agility of the AG-Sys apparently pays off, even at tracks with long straights. Take a look at the Moa Therma White challenge.
In Venom and Flash, however, I found that nothing is as important as speed. I did some speed laps at Basilico White yesterday (has the mix-up between B. Black and White in the tables of the official homepage already been noted?) and just when I almost reached my Piranha record in a perfect Assegai lap I went 2 tenths of a second faster the next time I chose Piranha.
So, Feisar might be a bit TOO slow, but agility does make the difference when going fast while speed is about all you need in the lower classes. After all, it's all based on experience, not stats. :) And then of course, don't even consider Wannabe_Lord_of_Hackers a fast Feisar pilot to begin with... :donut


28th December 2007, 10:36 AM
WindyMan - Good post, and one with which i agree. ALL of the ships have their inherent strengths & weaknesses which show up more on different tracks & in different classes.

After spending a huge amount of time with Feisar i finally tried the Assegai & discovered why so many others are using that ship. It's simply a well rounded craft that handles well in many (Not ALL, but many) different races etc.

My only caveat is that as the speeds go up, then the agility of the Assegai could become a problem & some of the other craft could then come into play and be really competitive, AG-Sys in particular.

This is one reason why i change ships so much, because i find that different tracks/classes demand a different type of craft, and there isn't really a "One suits all" craft (Thankfully) apart from perhaps the Icaras, which we've yet to see. :)

29th December 2007, 07:00 PM
Fieser wins of later tracks of course but a skilled Piranha on a track like moa therma is near impossible to beat them if items is off ofcourse,

i think fiesers the best anyway lol

30th December 2007, 03:08 PM
It's Feisar, not Fieser.

30th December 2007, 05:16 PM
A whole post for a spelling correction? Some people need to get out a bit more.

I'm going to stay using the Pirahna even when on Outpost 7 Phantom. I've been using it too long now to learn a new ship's handling.

30th December 2007, 05:27 PM
It's Piranha, not Pirahna.


30th December 2007, 05:37 PM
rageagainstgeorge: you'll have no problems on outpost7 white but you'll have problems on black.

eg: you can win the ag on straights throughout the map but you'll lose heaps of time trying to do the dual 180 turns.

I reckon the ship of choice for top players on rapier / phantom is the ag-sys now

and on venom / flash the piranha

30th December 2007, 06:42 PM
Egg - I'd like to say that it was done intentionally, but...

Kandang - I'm having trouble on both Black and White! It's going to take me a while to master for sure.