An orthodox view on records?

[Shinji16]

I used the search function, and couldn't find threads discussing this... If I'm wrong about no prior discussion, feel free to trout me.

I'm currently training to be in top shape for when Pulse hits the streets, and while posting my records I've developed a certain mentality when viewing the record boards...

I've found that I feel that records obtained by using the Zone ship are completely valid. The ship is an unlock, and in my opinion is unbalanced. Granted, it takes skill to pilot the craft, but I think given it's stats and method of obtainment (that it's not a starting ship) I let my eyes glaze over a bit whenever I see Zone ship records...

Am I justified in having this view, and does anyone share or highly oppose this opinion?

[rageagainstgeorge]

I don't get what you mean. Did you mean that the times should count or should be disregarded?

The only trouble is, while the Zone ship kills everything at lower speed classes, Triakis is much better at the higher classes.

My opinion is that it is part of the game, not a glitch or exploit, and therefore should be counted.

It's a classic argument though.

[Shinji16]

I don't get what you mean. Did you mean that the times should count or should be disregarded?
A little of both; while the record should be accounted for, I'm not sure if it should be held in the same class/grouping as records with other ships.

My opinion is that it is part of the game, not a glitch or exploit, and therefore should be counted.
Even with the starting ships?

It's a classic argument though.
Good to know; I figured as much.

[rageagainstgeorge]

I think Zone should be counted with the other ships because, in race mode, it loses big time to the other ships because of its low shields.

Bizzarely, it looses to other ships in TT mode because of the same reason. Less shields = less barrell rolls. This is one the reasons Triakis dominates the records.

Triakis is better candidate to be excluded. There is a bug where, although the handling stat is shown as being low, the Triakis acutally handles a lot better than its stats err... state. It's practically a supership.

[q_dmc12]

who would win in a Descension, Triakis or Zone?:rolleyes:

[stin]

On Phantom Decension? both! :p

stevie:D

[q_dmc12]

just what I thought8)

[Shinji16]

Hey, q_dmc12 and stin...

Zone ship: inclusion or exclusion with the other ships?

[rdmx]

I'd say include tbh, as the Zone craft shields are made out of soggy toilet paper rolls. With NO cardboard in the middle. *gasp* *shock-horror*

[Shinji16]

I'd say include tbh...

TBH...? Whazzat?

[stin]

To Be Honest;)

and another question you did asked me and Ben and I will let Ben answer for you;)

stevie:)

[q_dmc12]

which ben?:? There's like 3 of us that I know

[stin]

You!, of course!;)

stevie:)

[q_dmc12]

Hey, q_dmc12 and stin...

Zone ship: inclusion or exclusion with the other ships?

Inclusion, because each ship has it's own set difficulty level to master - if I used nothing but zone and then decided to move on to piranha or triakis I am going to have to learn a whole new control...feel. I would essentialy be a (for lack of a better term) n00b all over again and would have to relearn how to control my ship like a pro. The same could be said vice-versa.

The ideal strive is to become fluent/comfortable with all or most of the ships' control feels, if you can do this you will surely be unstopable reguardless of what ship you use on any track in any league.

[Mark Of Insanity]

Being relatively new to the records system, I don't have great experience to base my ideas on. However, from what I know so far I will add my views.

Even though I think that the records should be orthodox in principle, the Zone ship should be included, as should Triakis. Perhaps, though, if it is possible, we could have a function to show 'times not set by superships', or even better, a function that shows 'times not set by listed craft' (craft/ships). Listed craft could be the ships that the system is allowed to show the user, and anything not included in the list (ie. Zone and Medievil) would not be shown.

Actually, scratch that.

What would be better would be a 'strict' records table that only showed times from ships that aren't classed as superships/irregularities. So, for Wipeout XL/2097, it wouldn't show Piranha, but would show Feisar, AG Systems, Auricom and Qirex.

Agh, I've rambled on again! :brickwall Anyway, just a suggestion, I don't know whether it would be hard to implement or not though!

[q_dmc12]

All your database are belong to us....I know that didn't make sense to most of you, but to the astute web programmer it might.;)

[Task]

I think somebody set you up the bomb, because "estute" isn't a word. 8 )

Back on topic now...

The record tables already have the ability to look at "all records for this particular craft", but I doubt there's ever going to be a way to look at "all records for any _set_ of craft". The closest I could see it getting would be "all records for any craft _except_this_one_" (the fabled and rumored Pirhana Switch!).

Foxy could certainly implement (or get someone else to implement) any set of database queries you could imagine, but it's a question of "are the results worthwhile?". I mean, if you query the Pure tables for "all records made in craft that aren't Zone, Triakis, Tigron, Goteki, or VanUber" (all the power craft, or whatever) you're going to get, what, two results?

The fact of the matter is that when someone enters a time in the tables, it's usually because it's a really good time, and that requires the best craft for that track. Which means in a lot instances, one particular craft regardless of track. Like it or hate it, them's the facts.

If you've got a special hankering for some certain track with some select subset of craft, then there's already one proven solution for you: Make a challenge!

Post a time, start a thread in the Arena, let stew for a week, you'll be surprised at what comes out of the oven. Trust me on this one, I know. 8 )

[Tomahawk]

The closest I could see it getting would be "all records for any craft _except_this_one_" (the fabled and rumored Pirhana Switch!).


"fabled and rumored" - LOL! That's indeed the only additional thing we need to make our record table's search engine absolutly perfect IMO.

And on topic:

I say just include every ship. With the option to compare only crafts from one type the tables already have one great feature. And if you excluded the superships it might be that you don't get that many results because many people are only keeping one record per track (except in Pure maybe). Before Pure's tables there wasn't the possibility to keep more than one record per track and I'm tempted to think that not many pilots have updated their earlier records (W3O, 3SE, 2097, etc.) and enterd more times. :pc

[zargz]

I did! see venom? :)
http://wipeoutzone.com/records.php?game_id=6&mode_id=1&x=36&y=37&track_id=2&filter=all&type_id=2&limit=10&action=display_records&sub_action=