View Full Version : RETIREMENT?

27th April 2002, 10:41 PM
from fusion, a possibility. infox was right about the stuck to the ground physics. Even though the jumps are excellent, you still basically land in the same place whether or not you push up or down on the pitch. The pitch is why I loved earlier wipeouts and only liked xg3, fzero ect. the turning is great, but without the pitch control the way it should be, it makes the game way too easy. I like the scraping of the walls, but it doesn't slow you down enough. I get faster times with a bunch of scrapes as opposed to getting a perfect lap. The game is fun, but not as fun as it should be. Zone mode it great, but lasts way too long, and no race records!!! ridiculous. What racing game doesn't have race records? instead we get a single lap record that is plagued by cheaters and people getting records in race mode. Why not just have race and time trial set up like xl or 3? This just does not make any sense. I will probably keep playing the game since it is pretty fun ( the way f-zero should feel), but will not buy wipeout 5 if it doesn't have pitch control. Anyone else feel this way?

28th April 2002, 01:16 AM
If the series lasts a couple more iterations, perhaps the systems will be powerful enough to model a true physics engine, that accounts more for the aerodynamics of the ship design. I can't speak much for Fusion since I'm in the US (and not quite as fanatical as you to import), but with the ships so radically different in design now, I would think they should differ vastly more than just handling, turning, etc. I mean realistically, a tigron ship should sink off a jump far more quickly than a van-uber, I would think.

This topic reminds me of something I was thinking about a few days ago, however. Artistically, Wipeout was very much born of the club culture of the mid-ninties. There have been games that involve racing and blowing stuff up for a long time (S.T.U.N. Runner, Roadblasters...), but aside from some very innovative control, Wipeout's real innovation was in it's design and aesthetic. It did more than probably any other game to pull games from the geek world into being 'cool'.

Of course, the culture it based itself upon has moved on (as well it should). It has evolved, twisted, and splintered into lifestyles, musical genres, and ideologies that no longer have any real connection beyond their roots. Of course, you can argue that the culture was already splintered in 1995, and that Wipeout erred more towards the trance aspects of music, but for the sake of argument, bear with me. :)

It was said by the developers that since the culture has moved on, they were no longer trying to identify themselves with it. Personally, I think that's a mistake. By letting go of a major aspect of the overall vision of the World According to Wipeout, they have downgraded the game to "just another futuristic racing game".

Allow me to digress:
For all it's pill-popping, binkie-sucking, happy hardcore faults, I think that the electronic music culture still remains the best futurist vision around, while maintaining enough aspects of modern day reality to keep it identifiable. Forgive me for sounding a bit floaty, but unlike the roller discos in Buck Rogers, this culture isn't trying to be space age, but rather forward thinking, embracing the technological advancements of modern day. For example, compare Buck Rogers to Blade Runner or Max Headroom. The latter two weren't trying to be space-age, and as a result, remain relevant.

So anyway, I'm beginning to think that perhaps the vision that was there in Wipeout is giving way to boredom, and as a result, we're left with a game that's just like all the others. I've always been a firm believer in going out while you're on top. Perhaps it is time to retire. Just a thought.

</end rant>

28th April 2002, 01:01 PM
Anyone else feel this way?


28th April 2002, 03:36 PM
I know what you mean about the pitch control. The only place it seems to make the remotest bit of difference is on slopes, where speed can be slightly altered. In adapting this ground hugging style, they seem to have lost an entire plane of motion. In the originals, tipping the nose up stopped the underside of the craft from clattering the track and speed loss would result if you didn't. Fusion seems to have thrown it out of the window. There's not even that feeling of bouncing along the track after landing as though you were being pushed back from the surface. It just doesn't feel as comfortable. I wouldn't say it would put me off of buying another Wipeout game if this is kept, but it wouldn't feel like Wipeout anymore...

28th April 2002, 03:43 PM
there was a time when I was determined to become really really good at fusion, like Al and oggob and the rest.. but, to be honest.. Ive kinda gotten tired of Wipeout Fusion.. the teams arent all that fun anymore, the tracks are cool, but, ive pretty much seen it all now and raced all of them too many times. right now, i hope Quantum or what its name was for the xbox will be a really good racer. Other than that, Halo now has my total attention in the evenings.. thats a truly addictive game. as supposed to the AI in fusion, wich is good.. but, it isnt like, every race is different, cause.. when you get the piranha or whatever, you dont see them after the first lap.

29th April 2002, 02:57 AM
You see them when you are lapping them, and about 15 thousand weapons when they should be getting eliminated when you lap them. I tried for race records the other day, but couldn't get through one race without taking at least 2-3 weapon hits that bring you to a complete standstill. I am going to post my design for the next wipeout. It's about 21 pages handwritten right now and deals with all the aspects of problems of all the games. I think it should without a doubt be the exact design for the next game. Maybe I'll send it to sony :wink:

29th April 2002, 05:56 AM
What everyone has already said is pretty much spot on, the pitch bit is probably the main problem... the feel of the ships should have just been a more advanced development of the physics engine of 2097 or 3...

I won't be putting the game away for good though, I find it very fun indeed, mainly in Zone mode though, as it's just a way to challenge myself, as Al has stated it's the Race Records that stop the other modes from getting used alot, however, TT should have been both single lap, and race, and the direction they took it of having one Turbo per lap was also good, however the "fast ship" cheat ruined that with cheaters...

I have got alot of my records for laps through arcade, and thought when i wanted to start posting scores, start anew and then only have a TT saved game, BUT, if you save under a new file, the records from the original game carry over, which is a mistake as well... so my lap times contain both arcade and TT... so yes, they should have kept the records section like the earlier games...

along with Al, I also have some ideas, but they are generally on how to improve Zone Mode, and they aren't just the normal things, little features that can help those that aren't as good compete with the better players... I'll wait til Al posts his "essay" :D and see what he comes up with first...

Fusion is far from being the "perfect game" but everyones perception of prefect is different, everyone wants to be catered for, and quite possibily a 5th installment may be that, furthermore to what Al has said, through this community you have people that love the game, if it wasn't for these people, 2097, 3 or Fusion might never have been made, so what Al has thought up is a good idea, I reckon we should get a say in it! why not? it would be a good chance for everyone involved to make the best game possible...

I better stop, lol Still love the game, won't stop til Fusion 2, lol :D I love Zone!

1st May 2002, 04:40 PM
Just like my other pilots, as far as wipeout fusion is concerned, I have pretty much done everything there is to do. Believe it or not, I have gone back to GT3 to get my kicks. I dont have anything intellectual to add to this one, so I will keep my commenting to an absolute minimum.

I went to SCEE to review Fusion.
They said that the review would be published.
Months down the line, the review still has not been published.

Bear with me on this, I am trying very hard not to make this a personal rant at sony, but they wasted my time once, and they could very easily do it again.
I have a lot of definate opinion as to where wipeout should evolve, and if I had the knowledge that SCEE would listen to what I have to say, then I would gladly write pages and pages of pretty words for them to read and (quite probably) discard.

So write what you want! it would be an excellent idea if we could open up another forum here on WipEoutZone with something like "WipEout 5 - your opinion" where we could all have our say on Fusion`s natural evolution without the fear of wasting your breath (or in this case - typing finger), but thats even if/when they decide to make another wipeout.

1st May 2002, 07:49 PM
Mate - try spending the best part of two grand to fly to Los Angeles to tell the lead designer that you think flame throwers are f*cking stupid, amongst other things, and have him completely ignore you!

At least you got a free copy of the game out of it - I don't think that makes it a total waste of time in your case.

Why don't you e-mail Stephen Reid and ask him what happened with the feature? He might be able to shed some light on what became of it.

As for another forum, well - yeah, it had occurred to me. But at the moment it's just too early, and it will just encourage ridiculous wish lists that will long be forgotten by the time the next Wipeout is being made. As far as I've been told, Studio Liverpool will start to gather ideas for the next Wipeout in about a year or so.

At present, with the launch of Wipeout Fusion in North America only weeks away, most of the comments on a forum of that nature would be recoil comments about what people dislike about 'Fusion - not what they think would make a good clean version of Wipeout.

So I'd like to wait a while before expanding the board. Unless anyone can think of an argument to the contrary :)

1st May 2002, 10:39 PM
Mate - try spending the best part of two grand to fly to Los Angeles to tell the lead designer that you think flame throwers are f*cking stupid, amongst other things, and have him completely ignore you!

Ouch! That had to suck.
...I don't mean the two grand part, I mean going to LA. :)

O/T, but you're right about the flame throwers. That's pretty dumb. What could be cool, however would be a napalm bomb or field. Imagine how cool it would look to have light whisps of flame surrounding a craft, pulling off the back as the wind tries to put it out. Light damage, but a really good obstruction of view.

I think it's a bit too early to be sending ideas off to Sony as well. I'm sure those guys have gotten their fill of Wipeout for a while. Besides, those developers in particular are currently working on something else, aren't they? I'm still interested in reading Al's tome, though.

2nd May 2002, 11:01 AM
okay, I suppose youre right.. I did get a free copy of fusion out of the deal, so it wasnt a total waste.....

....and I cant make any argument against not adding another forum yet, besides, the amount of totally ridiculous wishlists that appeared for GT4 on neoseeker was staggering.
seeing as Sony are going to leave wipeout for about a year(thats not a direct quote, it just sounds reasonable), it doesnt make sense to write vast lists of demands yet. We are still allowed to talk things over and share a few ideas on this board, right?

And of course I still would like to hear what my man Zool has to say, the point I was trying to get across (but obviously failed) was for peoples not to rush lists off to SCEE right now, because it probably wont be useful. After all, we are the fans of the game, they owe us nothing - its us that have to owe them! the least we could do is be thoughtful

4th May 2002, 07:23 PM
What if...

Just an idea; feel free to comment and/or criticise on this.

It appears that there is a consensus here that if ideas are sent to Sony, it shouldn't happen to early. So, then what if we'd do some brainstorming on ideas? I myself have made a rather detailed sketch of how WO5 should look like (which Al also has in his possession), but I welcome any and all refreshing ideas.

If we could come up with something like joint ideas, and later present it as the idea of a collective rather than one person, we might be able to add some more weight to it. Less easy to ignore, certainly because there are few other sites like this.

If it would appear that, after such a brainstorm, our ideas are too far a part, there's still nothing lost. What does everyone here think?


4th May 2002, 07:48 PM
Well, it's one thing to listen to a consumer's criticisms and comments, but when you start heading into the territory of sending them design documents (including such things as artwork, gamplay ideas, and new concepts) anything you send is much more likely to get thrown into the trash without ever being read. There is too much of a risk of someone coming back and saying, "That was my idea! Where's my check?", that's it's a general policy of all developers and publishers to never even look at such submissions. Hopefully the developers, if they do intend to possibly do another Wipeout, are looking at forums like these and paying attention. But anything sent to them directly should probably stick to the basics of, "This sucks, this is great, etc.".

5th May 2002, 12:44 AM
The stuff I sent in got responded to. a very large list for fusion and a different one for wipeout 3. All of my questions got answered. NOt sure about other companies though.

5th May 2002, 07:27 AM
Well, if one of my ideas were to be used I wouldn't ask for money (unless they'd use *all* my ideas but that's something different).

I remember when I was a member of the GI-Joe Club (don't laugh, I used to be young just like you :lol:), I frequently sent in designs for new action figures and tanks and such, and they always replied by sending me nice freebies. So I suppose, like Zoolander says, it might depend on the company's spirit.