Today saw my TT disillusioning of Zone ship

[Megatron42]

Alright, like most people (I would imagine) I've used the Zone ship to earn most of the time trial medals. But this morning, after earning the Phantom TT gold on Anulpha Pass, I decided to switch to Qirex and give it a go. After two runs through, I got a new lap record (22.59 after my Zone time of 23.15 or so). It blew my mind! I noticed that all the differences lied in the amount of speed that Qirex kept through the long turns. With Zone I needed to do 2 or 3 perfect laps (and the others not far off!) to get gold, whereas Qirex allowed for a far sloppier run. Granted over the course of all this playing I was still learning the track, and the runs with both ships were FAR from perfect, but it still tore down my belief that Zone is unrivaled in time trial.

So what do you guys have to say about this -- is this already common knowledge I was unaware of? Is "super ship" a misnomer, even for TT?

[Sausehuhn]

I haven't used zone for TT so far, just Medievil, but also just one time.
Most ships are far better than zone or medievil because you can make turns different and you can control it a better way.
So that's my opinion.

[Drakkenmensch]

That's the natural progression for most players. You start with Harimau because it has handlinh of 4 even if speed is not all that good, and then you unlock Zone and think it's the greatest thing ever because of speed and handling at 5... until you eventually realize that you can do better with another team.

[rageagainstgeorge]

Drak - that was almost my exact run too. I started with Harimau because it's a good all rounder, then moved to Zone as soon as I unlocked it. After a while I decided to switch to AG - Systems (they handle similar to the Zone but are a "proper" team), then switched to Piranha and never looked back! Until now that is. I've found I can destroy all my times with the Triakis now. Piranha is still my favourite ship and I'll always use it in multiplayer even though i'm better in the Triakis.

[IRON59]

Another reason may be that with the zone ship, you may be not paying attention to efficient racing lines like you have to with lower handling ships. You could be wiggling (making minor corrections every millisecond) and wasting valuable time.

[Megatron42]

I think that no racing line really feels efficient because of how much speed you lose through turns with Zone, so you might be right about how people don't pay attention to the optimal lines. It's all in the handling ... and heavy, stable craft allow you to keep those lines better. At least, that's how it works for me.

[Sven]

I used Zone and Medieval for Phantom and Rapier TTs for a while. But soon after the Gamma packs rolled around, I realized that only 4 barrell rolls per race just doesn't cut it. I haven't touched them since.

[Distrupto]

That's the natural progression for most players. You start with Harimau because it has handlinh of 4 even if speed is not all that good, and then you unlock Zone and think it's the greatest thing ever because of speed and handling at 5... until you eventually realize that you can do better with another team.

Ur also a Harimau starter? So am I. I also did TTs with Zone until I test drove Piranha and shattered the Zone records. Then Auri cracked those and Qirex did a bit better on Citta. Now Zone is off the chart. One strange thing of Zone is that it seems to fly a little higher than other ships, and is floatier which makes u turn wildly and waste time swerving slightly from side to side. Also, its high stat makes u think watever u do, itll still win and thus u drive on any wild racing line.

[eLhabib]

that will rapidly change as soon as you try out multiplayer, believe me.

[Drakkenmensch]

Last night in multiplayer Phantom races, I was destroyed twice while flying the Triakis. Some of you are probably thinking "well duh, why didn't you absorb weapons?" and that's sometimes not possible, especially when a quake sends you flying off the track, and before you get a chance to reach the next weapon pad a bomb sends you flying into a nearby second bomb, finishing you outright.

And that's with shields at FIVE. Imagine with shields at ONE now.

[Distrupto]

A quake+bomb is the only way left to kill an AI. Even if u hit them with plasma right after they fire a weapon, they still absorb something(who knows wat) and survive. A plasma-bomb, plasma-mines, plasma-rockets, quake-bomb or quake-plasma r the only way to actually destroy a Triakis. However, just a quake or a bomb can destroy Zone.

[Drakkenmensch]

The AI can always pull a rabbit out of his hat, but a human player has no such ressources to absorb something out of nothing. If you race multiplayer in Rapier or Phantom while flying Zone, you'll find yourself always wanting for more shields.

[Distrupto]

Yep, anything will destroy a Zone. It was made for Zone mode, where u have to save it from walls, not to fend against Quakes, Bombs and Plasma Bolts in a race.

[Drakkenmensch]

A race with four players on Phantom means five laps to go through, so each individual weapon pad can be run over five times by four players. The odds of any one of them picking up plasma bolts, bombs, mines and quakes is too important to ignore, not to mention mucho wall scraping.

[Dominator]

I reckon anyone useing friggin Zone or Medievil on Rapier/Phantom in Tournament/Multiplayer is just asking for alot of unwanted attention :evilgrin :twisted:
As far as TT's go, imo one should use a team that they are familiar with, go with what you know :)

[Brianetta]

I find that I can fly Harimou faster than Zone for time trials, although at the moment I'm flying a Triakis because it's not quite so easy. It feels heavy, although not as heavy as Piranha - that thing has a really heavy bum.

I'm only at Venom, though. I refused to advance to Venom until I had every Vector gold, and since I fly the tournies last I don't have access to the higher classes yet.

[aphex]

After working for days trying to get through even the flash single races, I switched from Vanuber and Icaras to Triakis on Hellfire's endorsement and was shocked to find a 2/5 handling ship with little thrust so forgiving of *minor* mistakes. In particualr I noticed that, allthough bisecting a course fork with your ship's nose -or even hitting it at any angle less than 45 degress from the perpendicular - carries the penalty of egregious recoil and delayed thrust, minor brushes against the wall seemed incur a lesser speed hit than that of several other ships I've tried. The problem is, when you screw up badly even once, you feel really bad, sense a doom and sinking feeling where you inwardly yell, "son of a BITCH!".

So I think my main gripe with Triakis is the wide divide separating that awesome sense of one's massive machined aluminum muscle pistoning through any obstructons down a spiraling chamber, on the one hand, and on the other the sense of needing to maintain an even higher degree of vigilance with respect to the turns themselves. I suppose one mitigating factor is that of the shield being generally sufficient to endure most attempts to savage you as you crawl out from your corner.

This might not be the most appropriatye thread for this question, but do top players generally assess Triakis' handling at a higher value than its nominal one? Has anyone attempted to quantify the true fractional value, if in fact it is a non-integer?

thanks

[Drakkenmensch]

In my experience, Triakis handles somewhat better than Piranha - I'd be ready to bet that Triakis' handling is rounded down from 2.4, possibly even 2.5 or 2.6. With the airbrakes used just right, I can take some really awesome turns and navigate chicanes at full speed even on Phantom. I rarely ever need to let go of the thrust button anymore, and "pedal to the metal" becomes entirely viable as well.

[Megatron42]

Triakis is great, in fact I've even gotten some better times with Triakis than Qirex, but here we all know about team loyalties...

[Drakkenmensch]

You've probably noticed by my avatar that I've returned to Assegai, an old flame of mine which turns out to be a much better choice in Phantom league as it accelerates so great and is so agile. It's easier to recover from wall scrapes and weapon hits, and in heated races that's a real life saver.

It's an amazing ride, it is :)

[Dominator]

"Hey Drak" whats with all the team changes :?
Getting a bit dizzy over here with all your Avatar changes :dizzy:)
Did you get the job done with Triakis? Are you setting new personal records with the Assegai? :D

[G0rT]

Drak, your just changing teams all over the place! I'm like that too though, since lately I have been shying away from my ussual Goteki and have been using Assegai and Harimou since they just seem to handle better and are not as elongated. Though just as long as it isn't the two newbie and overated ships, I'll fly anything, as they are just as I said, overated. I find both zone and medevil are simpy to jumpy to pilot efficiently as it is hard to get a smooth racing line with them, therefore giving you slower lap times. Thats why I like the Assegai as it has handling but it also feels steady in and out of the corners and with it I have been smashing my old records with zone from my first profile which were suprisingly fast times. And as for Harimou, theres no explaining it but it just feels "funner" than the rest to ride in, regardless of my preformance in it (which isn't half bad at all).

[Distrupto]

You've probably noticed by my avatar that I've returned to Assegai, an old flame of mine which turns out to be a much better choice in Phantom league as it accelerates so great and is so agile. It's easier to recover from wall scrapes and weapon hits, and in heated races that's a real life saver.

It's an amazing ride, it is

Pretty, son Drak, u'll be flying a FEISAR at this rate. U went from Piranha to testing Auricom to Triakis and have landed on Assegai. Next will be Qirex, and after passing everythin else, FEISAR, Van Uber, or worse...:cold Zone

So far, Auricom is dominating my records still. I test drove Triaxis and it beat the ghost Auri in 3 laps! I tried to beat it with Qirex and went 50 laps with no luck. Then I took on ol' Piranha. In 3 laps, Trio was de-crowned from the Blue Ridge record tables. Its a ridiculous cycle, isnt it? :frown: :o :?

[Drakkenmensch]

I've already tried out Qirex for a few days, Feisar for a few races, and Zone? Nothing to interest me there. Too nervous, too jumpy, too explody.

[Distrupto]

I know, Qirex is fast and well shielded, FEISAR hardly ever has to airbrake, but Zone? It always acts as if its disrupted.

Oh my this quick-reply thing rocks!

[eLhabib]

not to mention that zone doesn't even have a team identity.

'Oh, you guys don't have a last name, huh? You know what that means: DIE, FACELESS MINIONS!'

[Distrupto]

What do you mean by that, eL???:?

[eLhabib]

well, unlike all the regular and downloadable teams in purE, zone and medievil don't have a logo and color scheme. Which makes it kinda hard for me to indentify with them, seeing as the visuals are an important aspect to me.

[lunar]

also the "regular" teams can be imagined as real organisations in the Wipeout universe - with pilots, engineers, designers, fat cat money-men, fans, history etc. Not so for zone and medievil, or the Omega Teams or Puma for that matter, no matter what creative backstories we manage to come up with in compensation. This is why I love my US Pure so much: it`s so pure. It makes me half-inclined not to want Omega released for my US game, even if it makes life more convenient. atm I don`t have to put up with racing a descension against Haironaut, Bogweevil, Medievil, Klor, Puma and then a couple of token real AG Teams. I realise owners of the US version only wouldn`t see it that way of course. Maybe if Omega did see a US release the ships could be disabled as AI competitors, except on their "home" tracks in crazy old Omega world. That`s "pure" speculation though.

I agree with the general impressions about the zone ship, that it`s too twitchy and prone to stall on corners. Its acceleration isn`t spectacular either. Medievil is overall a faster ship, imo.

[Megatron42]

^^ And more stable! That reminds me, a couple of courses where I got sick of the wobble factor of zone I switched to Medievil and had such an easier time with it! The last third of the Sebenco Climb track is a good example of this.

[Distrupto]

well, unlike all the regular and downloadable teams in purE, zone and medievil don't have a logo and color scheme.

Zone actually shouldn't be racing on the FX-300 circuits with the others. It was built by Belmondo Foundation as a test of pilot skill, not a racer, which is y it never comes as an AI. That way, Zone's logo is the FX-300 sign. Medieval has a logo, the logo for Medieval Resurrection, as seen on its airbrakes, but no one knows how it got there, so it isnt a team. The Omega teams r new teams, and have just joined AG racing, so they cant be called fakes. Remember how Piranha started out, as a supership equiv of Zone?

[eLhabib]

I think we don't need to discuss that medievil definitely does not belong in the purE universe.
As for zone, I just think it is a faceless, hollow shell, lacking any personality and style whatsoever. Even it's racing line isn't really distinguishable.

[lunar]

Distrupto, you tell yourself all that backstory stuff if you like ;) But I find it hard to believe that even in 2197 there could be a racing team called "Turboweevil" or "Haironaut". They are joke ships, in a positive sense, but fit into 2197 in the same way that Teletubbies would fit into a film about the court of King Arthur. There`s absolutely no attempt to place these ships realistically in the wipeout universe - they represent the makers of early 21st century urban art forms, just as Medievil represents the makers of an early 21st century computer game and the game itself. So just as Teletubbies only make sense in Tellytubbyland, Omega ships only make sense in Omegaland. They`re very good though - I think the Turboweevil design is great.:)

[Drakkenmensch]

Just so you know - it's not "Bogweevil", it's "Turboweevil"

[lunar]

lol :redface: whoops. It was a lack of caffeine stimulation of brain matter at the time of posting.

What`s in a name though? doesn`t affect the argument. I will edit that post all the same. :)

[Drakkenmensch]

No worries, Lunar, it's all cool with us :)

Personally, I find that the Omega ships are quite nice to look at, and despite having odd names do show a good measure of originality in their visual style. I don't mind them showing up in normal races, as it randomizes the starting grid more than ever and makes things less predictable.

[Distrupto]

Hey, if the Omega ships look so good, can someone pleez send me a pic!!! I PMed Drak a long time ago but so far, I havent had any luck. At least I can SEE wats in the other downloads, but I havent a glimpse of anything Omega. This makes it even worse to not have the Euro version.:frown: :brickwall

[Drakkenmensch]

Tell me about it! I've been searching high and low for screenshots of the Omega tracks and ships, but there's still none to be found, not on Gamespy, Gamespot, IGN or anywhere else! Not even Google has yielded anything yet! I'm baffled as to the net's general lack of Omega awareness, we still seem to be the only spot on the web who knows about this download pack aside from wipeoutpure.com... bizarre.

*plays Twilight Zone theme music*

[SMThomas]

Well did see a glimise of one of the tracks on WipEout Pure's official website but relating to negative comments about the tracks, I shouldn't bother about the Omega pack when I get WipEout Pure but keen to get others as well as the Puma pack.

[Distrupto]

Even I havent been able to find anything myself. Is this some secret thing? This Omega syndrome is just ridiculous.:o :? The only thing close to Omega ive been able to find is those old track design pics and Cardboys.:rolleyes:

[lunar]

It`s true they do add variation which you might welcome according to personal taste I guess. They are vicious too and might possibly make the AI tougher to beat. Nevertheless they`re a bit too wacky races for me. :)

distrupto, there are some screenies here (http://www.vinylabuse.com/index.php?subaction=showcomments&id=1132079595&archive=&start_from=&ucat=&)

the first ship is Turboweevil (!) but Im not sure about the others as I haven`t learned the difference yet.

SMT, you should definitely get the Omega pack. It`s a riot of creativity, a speed rush and you`d be missing out if you didn`t play it. Almost everyone would agree on that I think.

[Drakkenmensch]

First ship (yellow) is Tirboweevil, track is Burgertown.

Second ship (purple, same shape as TW) is Haironaut, track is Paris Hair.

Third ship is Cardracer, track is Cardcity Run.

Fourth ship is Klor, track is 123Klan.

[Distrupto]

It`s true they do add variation which you might welcome according to personal taste I guess. They are vicious too and might possibly make the AI tougher to beat. Nevertheless they`re a bit too wacky races for me. :)

distrupto, there are some screenies here (http://www.vinylabuse.com/index.php?subaction=showcomments&id=1132079595&archive=&start_from=&ucat=&)

the first ship is Turboweevil (!) but Im not sure about the others as I haven`t learned the difference yet.

SMT, you should definitely get the Omega pack. It`s a riot of creativity, a speed rush and you`d be missing out if you didn`t play it. Almost everyone would agree on that I think.

Wow, thanks lunar! Great stuff here, its rather wild, but cool nevertheless! Its amazing, with the burgers, heads, crazy creatures and Cardboys running around! It made me download the Omega Packs and put them in my PSP's savedata, even though they dont work with my UMD. The Turboweevil is awesome, and Cardcity Run has become my favorite track.:D :dizzy If I ever get a Euro Pure, and the Omega Packs have gone offline, at least, I got it while it was still up for grabs.:p

Edit: I have a chance of getting the Euro Pure from mid-December to late January! Hooray! But its only a chance and may not happen too. This is WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY better advertising than Puma or Coke ever got!

[eLhabib]

WOW:o

thanks lunar for this link! I had no idea... these tracks are awesome! DAMN, that sh*t's WHACK! I'm loving all four of them, and the ship designs are very cool, too! Mind, you, from behind, the cardracer looks almost like the w3o piranha!
looking forward to my euro copy even more now!

[Drakkenmensch]

The Omega pack as a whole is one massive hallucination ;)

[Lance]

.
wow! cool stuff! Card City and 123Klan are definitely my favourites of the four. both basic ship designs look good; i think i favour the one used for CC/123K.

Paris Hair is just as artistically valid as the others... but... eww. not my taste.

[that is the biggest damn' page i've ever downloaded. my connection was 33600. took over 49 minutes to download over 8.3 megabytes. the images averaged near 200KB even though the detail in them required less than 50KB to show properly. the poster could have been more thoughtful, although he diD tell the 56Kers to turn back noW. :) ]

i think it was a very successful project getting the non-game designers to work their personal style on the Wipeout framework.
.

[SMThomas]

I checked out some screenshots and to me, it looks childish (except for card city which looks ok to me) like the point of having bright colours and characters, well, it is art but it doesn't mix well with the game alright, not very wipeout indeed.

[Dominator]

The Omega tracks may not be to everyone's taste, but imo are visually quite stunning, very dreamlike and great fun to race.
And track 123Klan is very very wipEout8)

[Megatron42]

What have you done to my thread! Aw man!

[Dominator]

Sorry Megatron, guilty as charged :redface:

[aphex]

I don't like the visual design of the tracks one bit, except for the second in the series (forgot the name) which I think is the best both in terms of the textures and the track design. The other three range from nauseating to passable but are well designed circuits nonetheless. No offense to anyone who feels otherwise.

Hopefully they (the tracks) will grow on me.

[Dominator]

2nd Omega track is Cardcity Run :)

[Distrupto]

I didnt have any problem viewing those pics, my bb loaded it in 3 min. The 2D wildworld, that is known as Burgertown, is silly, but fun. I would love seeing Medieval exploding and then that freakout pinkhead thing flying over the burning heap.:o Cardcity Run is nice, but it looks like ur a hamster running through a city of huge Cardboys. 123Klan is rather normal, but Paris Hair is :bat . In ships, the Card Racer is my fav.

Oh no, now we're gonna be kicked out of this thread for sure.

*runs to avoid the blast*

[Drakkenmensch]

Danger Will Robinson! Danger! Thread hijink in progress! Hooks flailing wildly!

The Zone ship is definitely not made for Phantom racing - five laps with a lot of easy wall scrapes to dent your shields, and enraged opponents out to get you any way you can. Shields at 1 is suicide, especially on tracks like Citta Nuova.

[Distrupto]

We know that already. The Zone wasnt made for phantom, it was made for Zone.

[SilentShadow13]

oddly enough, my first choise in pure was the Auricom. i then went to many other ships then found that the Triakis kicks butt. In the hands of a talented pilot, the Tigron is a really good ship too, I used to use it all the time. VanUber is a bit slow and has an odd center of gravity. The Goteki45 is just not a sahip that can win races, it is just... odd. The Icarus is too fast for me to handle, and I can't seem to get it through a Phantom race... I generally use the Zone for TT or FreePlay, just for the hell of it.

[Dominator]

For TT's i use my beloved FEISAR for all but one class, Flash :bomb
Tried Zone but found it too floaty, bloody awfull :turd switched to Icaras and it all fell into place :)
Zone and Medievil, imo, are a complete and utter waste of time, just cannon fodder, plain and simple!!
What is it about bloody Flash, i can crucify times in all the other classes using my FEISAR........