CARS IN YEAR 2197?!!!!!!!!!!!

[Distrupto]

I was practicing Piranha in Chenghou Project when looking from the start line one lap, I saw what was CARS, TRUCKS and BUSSES crossing a bridge above in the distance. I double-braked to see them and thought that they must be AG cars or something. I got up closer to them and I saw that they had WHEELS! They were running around in the city like normal rush hour traffic in cities now! I even saw similar cars on a highway while I was at Blue Ridge near the bridge seen a bit before entering the last tunnel. Any sightings of cars and reasons of why they r their may be reported here.


I think that cars are there since, when AG craft were invented in 2035, they proved to be too expencive at many millions of dollars per craft.
Several attempts over the years were made to make AG craft practical, but they just never came under $2million(current day equivalent). They also werent as envirofriendly as cars and required tons of ethanol per minute to power the AG Generators and 4 Stage Divergent Turbines. Thus, AG craft were kept only to racing, and after F9000s collapse, they totally disappeared and the teams were desperately trying to sell their AG ships to any rich ppl willing to buy. Ppl missed AG craft, so they bought the ships and started FX-150 and the teams re-emerged at the birth of FX-300 Racing League. :wink: :lol: :D :D :lol: :P 8O :rock_on :guitarist

[Sausehuhn]

hm...
sounds logical - but:
in Pure there are also "personal" AG-crafts (e.g. on Blue Ridge, on the right side (after the curve after the big jump, in front of 2 or 3 houses)
Also Fusion featured a lot of hovering crafts.

To be true, I would like to see AG-crafts instead of Cars. It looks more like future and: it let's me hope that also I could buy an AG-craft in near future (looks forward to the next IAA ;) )

[Drakkenmensch]

There's certainly a lot of variety of AG craft quality and performance levels, just as you have cars varying in price range from used Pintos and Yugos to Nissan Sentras to Lexus and BMW all the way to the multi-million dollar Ferrari F1 racer.

The same is bound to apply for future AG crafts!

[Distrupto]

Yes, I said that AG craft would be sold, only at a very high price. And, anyway, Blue Ridge seems like a very posh area compared to other places in Makana like Vineta K, Chenghou or Cita Nuova. I dont know about Fusion since I bought Wipeout Pure cause its one of the PSP games and not because I've been following Wipeout series(i dont have a PS2). But in Pure, I'm certainly sure I saw cars in Chenghou Project. Also in Blue Ridge, a little after the house with the hovercraft, a highway crosses over the track on which Brithish-style twin-floor busses and some sedans can be seen.

And if high-performance FX-300 AG craft cant fly over a couple of metres above the ground without turbos, then how can that personal hovercraft go straight up and fly away like a helicopter? If AG craft are like that, then they have already been invented. About a week ago, the "Skycar" which runs on ethanol and is powered by 4 turbines was launched for $2 Million as a "rich boys toy" thing like a cheaper, faster helicopter.

[randomperson1]

Vineta K is a tourist's area.(holidays)
Sinucit is a town center.
Citta Nuova is a large industrial estate.
Blue Ridge and Staten Park are national parks.

[Distrupto]

Then how come there r houses there????[/u]

[Mobius]

Well where do you think Percy the Park Keeper lives eh? :?

[Distrupto]

In a house in Citta Nuova! :roll:

[infoxicated]

The AG teams design their craft for a very specific purpose - to go as fast as possible at the appropriate speed class, around a specially constructed circuit, within the rules and guidelines specified by the Belmondo Foundation for competition in the FX300 racing league.

Stands to reason that they're not meant/built to fly to faraway places.

[Distrupto]

So that proves it. AG craft has already been invented, just without "AG Generators".

[Sausehuhn]

But you mentioned one point that got me thinking:
speed.
The crafts in the league are normally fast, very fast, too fast for normal traffic. And we all know it gets expencieve when a engine has more power.

But a normal car doesn't need so much speed, so the engine is maybe cheaper

...but... the other way: you don't need that much power to let a AG-craft go faster. Just an engine that starts and stopps, because the air hasn't that much aerodynamic resistance.

Hm...

[Jittery-Joe]

Yes, I said that AG craft would be sold, only at a very high price.
I agree with this. plus the cars'd probably be something more along the lines of a Hydrogen fuel cell, or a wipEout universe version.

[Seek100]

I mentally blank out the cars whenever I pass those sections, I was terribly disapointed when I first saw them there in purE as Fusion had shown all the civilian AG-craft floating about around the tracks and not a primitive wheel to be seen anywhere. Which only makes sense really, the AG-racers seem to be pushed forward by the same tech that keeps them floating in the air - remember those of you who've played the original, in the manual Belmondo talks about how their new tech was completely clean and did away with all the old fuel sources and so on. Also there are numerous 'news stories' about how the ludicrous taxes on oil (which are real now anyway) all became completely useless once people found out that this new AG tech required no fossil fuels to power it.

So as I said I've trained my mind to do a mental 'la-la-la I'm not listening, no you didn't see cars with wheels, it's an illusion, they're not really there, la-la-la'. Every time I go past one of those bits.

[eLhabib]

actually, I think the fact that there still ARE some 'normal' cars makes the whole fictional world of wipEout purE much more believeable! As good and clean AG may be, it will never completely replace the wheel! Just like the internet has never and will never replace newspapers and magazines (which it was believed to, 10 years ago).

[Drakkenmensch]

"Video killed the radio star... video killed the radio star..."

[Seek100]

I've never read an entire newspaper in my entire life, I've never ever sought out to buy a newspaper, nor will I ever, I've only ever read articles from a newspaper when exceedingly bored usually waiting for something, and even then I only read one or two stories that interest me. For me at least, TV news and the internet news websites have completely replaced the printed newspaper as a far more reliable and less inherently biased source of information. Of course I can't necessarily trust either the BBC or many internet news sites but I trust them more than any printed paper. Especially the kind of papers we have here in the UK :?

Any change over from one virulently entrenched monolithic and monopolistic technology to a new, untried, usually far superior technology will always take a great deal of time, decades even, but it will inevitably happen as more and more people eventually see the advanteges (and in most case can eventually afford) the new tech as it becomes more established. Take the change over from Vinyl and cassete-tapes to CD, and later to DVD. I remember when CDs were still a special kind of thing, most music when I was young was on tape because you couldn't listen to a CD in your car. Incidentally I'm still only 20 but it makes me feel really ancient when people talk about how old and crap PS1 games are now.

The change over in the wipEout world to AG craft instead of cars would happen, it might not have happened by the time of the first wipEout which was only a few decades after the invention of the tech, or even by 2097. But certainly by the time of w3o cars and planes should be a relic of the past, the sort thing only enthusiasts who wear many sweaters with odd patterns and have large unfashionable beards would really care about. Sort of like the trainspotters of the future.

[element42]

Take the change over from Vinyl ...to CDIn this case, not a superior technology, merely a more convenient one. :wink:
and I don't have a beard...

[Seek100]

Oh come on now, you're not seriously going to argue that the extra fidelity of a vinyl is actually noticeable to any more than about 2% of the population are you? Because that is the only technical advantage of vinyl, a few people with bat like hearing can detect a minor imporvement in quality because the CD cuts-out audio components the 'average' (read normal) person can't hear. There's absolutely no tech advantage to about 98% of the population (any improvement you may think you hear is usually an illusion caused by your own expectations of the vinyl being better) and CDs are obviously as you say far more convenient. Thus my justification that CDs are fundamentally better than vinyl. Plus you don't need a set of decks mounted to your dash to listen to your favourite music in the car.

And I never suggested you had a beard, I was describing a stereotypical trainspotter type person who I reckon in the future of wipEout, that sort of person would be very 'into' old wheeled cars and jet and prop powered planes as they'd be just seen as obsolete by the majority of people.

[element42]

the extra fidelity of vinyl may not be noticable to most, but it's there. It seems crazy to me to have this analogue musical signal, convert it to digital, then convert it back again to analogue so we can listen to it. It is the superior form of music reproduction. And vinyl sales, incidentally, are growing.
CDs are purely a convenience thing. Okay, a very big convenience thing. :wink:

I would like to point out that I own neither a record player nor any records. I like to play devils advocate :twisted: . I did once buy OK Computer on vinyl, but (a) I love that album and (b) it's sides are named 'eeny', 'meeny', 'miny', and ... 'mo'.

[Lance]

.
bless you, sir. OK Computer is one of the very best music 'albums' ever made.
as was its predecessor, 'the Bends'. [starts singing 'street spirit'']
.

[Drakkenmensch]

<Stephen Hawking> Fitter. Happier. And more productive. </Stephen Hawking>

Dare I say 'best album of the 90's hands down'?

Yes. Yes I shall say it!

Radiohead rocked my world with that one :D :D :D :D :D

[eLhabib]

*coming back to topic*

I took a spin around Chenghou and Blueridge, just to check this - the cars in question don't have wheels! At least you don't see them. Only because their chassis LOOK like 'normal' cars, you assume that they have wheels, but you cannot see them from this angle. They might as well be the AG counterparts to today's vans (I watched them closely, and they are ALL van-like vehicles, so they might as well be used to transport ship parts (one has a Feisar logo on it) or be used for public transport (there's also one with the 'mono' logo on it).

Btw, I also checked that - assumedly privately owned - red ship in front of the countryhouse (I bet the guy living there can't sleep well :D ), and it looks to me as if this is more of a vertical lander (like the 'skycar') than an AG craft. It has big turbines strapped to it! (CONVENTIONAL turbines that is, no AG fizzle :wink: )

[Distrupto]

I saw wheels on those cars and vans! There were little black tirey things on them, im sure they were wheeled! They Are CARS and VANS and TRUCKS, not AGs! And I took a good look at that "AG" ship in front of the house of the guy who cant sleep. Its just like the Skycar! It takes off and hovers like the Skycar in the show and video I saw! Even its transferr from hover to fly(which u have to go far back to see) is like the Skycar, Harrier fighter plane, or JSF fighter jet. And it has no big purple jet-streak like AG racers. Have any of you read the beginning of the Pure intro? It says "4-Stage Divergent Turbine" and shows a motor which looks like a turbojet with scramjet-like intakes. This cant be so non-polluting and clean as its said. If u mean no fossil fuels, then even Skycar and any car can be run on ethanol and biodiesel (plant oils).

Heres a M400 Skycar link:

http://www.firebox.com/?dir=firebox&action=product&pid=415[/url]

[eLhabib]

I saw wheels on those cars and vans!

Please tell me the spot in the game from which you can see wheels on those vehicles. I have tried every possible angle, you CAN'T see it!


And I took a good look at that "AG" ship in front of the house of the guy who cant sleep. Its just like the Skycar! It takes off and hovers like the Skycar in the show and video I saw! Even its transferr from hover to fly(which u have to go far back to see) is like the Skycar, Harrier fighter plane, or JSF fighter jet.

Okay, now you're just making stuff up. The skycar on blueridge only goes straight up and down, it doesn't 'transfer from hover to fly'. :?

[Distrupto]

k, i guess u cant see the AG ship going from hover to flight, but u CAN see the wheels on the cars.

[eLhabib]

k, i guess u cant see the AG ship going from hover to flight...

YOU GUESS? You just said '...I took a good look at that "AG" ship in front of the house of the guy who cant sleep. Its just like the Skycar! It takes off and hovers like the Skycar in the show and video I saw! Even its transferr from hover to fly(which u have to go far back to see) is like the Skycar...'!!! So basically now you are saying 'I GUESS I JUST LIED' :? Think about it...

Concerning the supposed wheels - please tell me where to park my ship and in which direction to look to see them, THEN I will buy it.

[Distrupto]

Look in Chenghou Project from the start/finish line. U will see wheels on the vans. :o 8)
The bridge on Blue Ridge is too high up to see wheels on the vehicles, but next to the house with the red "AG" ship, there is a house which has a cool blue AG craft which u can get a real good view of if u come close to the wall. Upon a closer look, these two AG craft only go up, it was onel plane-like craft thing which looked similar to the red AG ship that I saw. 8O So i didnt "guess" thats just the first word that came to mind.

[eLhabib]

Okay, sorry to have sounded rude, I was just thrown off by the fact that you obviously saw things i didn't. Now I will go check chenghou for some wheels :wink:

edit: hmm, sorry, but I still can't see any wheels. Those cars are basically just square polygon blocks with textures.

[Distrupto]

If u dont see the wheels, its ok. If u think they r AG vans, thats fine, they may be, but to me, they r normal vans.

edit: Then, of course, SCE didnt make them in great detail, as they're pretty close to or on the ground.

[Sausehuhn]

Btw:

on the big jump at Blue Ridge, fly on the top of the side panel. You have a view that's far better then from the track. So that's my opinion.

[Dogg Thang]

I don't see the problem here - AG transport is less likely to have the control offered by a wheeled vehicle, most likely very costly and for day to day transport practicality will win out.

I mean - why do we still use ships when we have had planes for over 100 years? For that matter, why don't our normal vehicles use jet engines?

Wheeled vehicles in 2197 seems pretty likely to me.

[lunar]

Dead right, Dogg. And also, when you consider how dangerous some people are in a car, can you imagine the havoc they could cause when "controlling" a high-powered AG-Ship capable of free movement in all 3 dimensions. Like the city hovercar chase scene in Attack of the Clones - that sort of traffic is implausible and scary to me as it would be absolute carnage. At least in a car you know you`ve only got to watch the sides, and no idiot is going to hit you from underneath or above. And even if they do it`ll definitely be their fault.

As an illustration, imagine trying to get round a 3 dimensional version of this particular junction:

http://www.gpsdrawing.com/gallery/land/magic_roundabout.htm

The bigger contradiction to me is why do AG Racers always return to earth, but the AG Transport ships you see flying around are capable of free flight? Surely once you`ve beaten gravity you`ve beaten it: you aren`t going to sink down again. Gravity doesn`t increase as you get higher and pull you down again. AG Racers must be programmed to keep a constant height above a solid surface, or use a different more limited AG Technology than the transport ships.

[Egg]

I'm just imagining how hard a racer, with full 3D freedom of movement, would be to play ...



Let's just imagine that the inventors of the sport thought the same way :wink:

[Lance]

.
''.. full 3D freedom of movement''

N_Gen Racing [for PSX/1]. jet aircraft racing with full 3D movement. quite easy to play.

---------------

one reason for using wheeled vehicles: zero power required to hold them off the ground, so less total power is needed.
another reason: simple and cheap mechanical steering for wheeled vehicles, rather than the complex thrusters and thruster control systems for AG.
another: increased safety due to having to watch for other vehicles in only one traffic plane. this would be true even for automated control systems which would have a lower input load than for multi-level traffic
.

[syckls]

Two more reasons why flying cars are not so cool. You'd have to set up a midair road system to avoid crashes all over the place, yet there's no immediate penalty for flying off the road unlike with a car where you might wreck your suspension. In addition, can you imagine how disastrous a crash up at a higher level would be? That person is dead, no questions asked, but what about the vehicles it hits on the way down? It may even cause an explosion, taking out vehicles that may have been at a safe distance.

[Distrupto]

Whoa, that would be really dangerous! And ppl always make mistakes, so a single crash would be a giant disaster. And if someone isnt totally alert, they could crash into buildings and stuff causing devastation. Plus, complex AG generators( powerful electromagnets),
4-stage divergent turbines(1 or 2 stage for non-racers), scramjets or ramjets and powerful hovercraft pressure belts would be expensive to develop, manufacture, and maintain and thus become impractical. Onboard supercomputers would be needed to help control the flight and all those systems will need a tremendous amount of whichever fuel they use for power.

AG craft will never replace good ol' cars.

Even Sol2 seems impractical, its a race track cruising through the stratosphere. But then again, that can be counted as a technological marvel, 2197 wise, since it alone gets so many gallery art pictures advertising it.

[randomperson1]

I'm just imagining how hard a racer, with full 3D freedom of movement, would be to play ...



Let's just imagine that the inventors of the sport thought the same way :wink:

NO WAY! That would ruin wipeout!