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Dimension
11th March 2005, 10:47 PM
K so i was checking out Mano's video again and started thinkin about the top speed in 2097, seems he was doing about 400Kph when maxed out in the piranha, without using braketapping, if you translate that to Mph to compare with W3O you'll notice that 400Kph = 250Mph (ish), but in all honesty i've very rarely seen a ship in W3O reach 250 Mph, you can get up to the early 200's on the straight at MM and from the jump at P-Mar, but what's caught my interest is that that means there's basically no change in top end speed in over 30 years of competition, I can't help but wonder why, surely 30 years in modern motor sport would constitute a vast change, don't you think, so why not in the future? Here's a quote from the W'O" manual:

Research goes on day and night in the quest to find the perfect race craft, one that will travel further and faster than anything previously made.
So why indeed is there no change? Surely the research, going on day and night as it is, would, in 30 years make a big difference. Why not then I wonder... Why not? :)

silaris
11th March 2005, 11:41 PM
I believe there are regulations in this, and the main reason is : The Driver. Honestly, I wouldn't want to push it myself. You can only go so fast, but when it comes to technology and human beings, we can't sync with each other. When you're going 200+mph, you don't really have any time to react to things on the road. A single little squirrel could be on the road and if you hit it, you may end up dead, no matter how much protection you have. I'm thankful for these limitations, cause we don't want people dying. There's a lot of factors when it comes to racing. While we remain on the ground with friction, I'm thankful for regulations on speed.

Anti-Gravity is another story.

infoxicated
12th March 2005, 11:56 AM
It's the same in every racing sport - the speeds usually even out at the point where it becomes stupidly dangerous. I remember Mario Andretti breaking the closed circuit speed record at Phoenix with a lap averaging in the mid 230mph region back in '93, I think it was. But IndyCars don't go any faster than that more than ten years later - it's like the law of deminishing returns, where the life of the driver and the quality of the racing take precedence over ludicrous speed. (hat tip to Dark Helmet :))

G'Kyl
12th March 2005, 02:58 PM
But then I think Dimension got a point. With Wipeout being not entirely an exact reproduction of reality and also being primarily about speed and ever more speed, it seems strange that max mph wouldn't improve over the years.

On the ChampCar issue, when I read Rob's last replay, I remembered this race on one of the superspeedways, don't remember where and when it was, were drivers suffered from black-outs because that year's cars had become so fast the race had to be cancelled. Talk about a well organized racing series... ;)

Ben

zargz
12th March 2005, 03:10 PM
' Wipeout being not entirely an exact reproduction of reality.. '
What are you talking about!!! :evil:


:P

Praeterea censeo autopilotum esse delendam

Roger
12th March 2005, 03:44 PM
Personally, I'm waiting for reality to become an exact reproduction of wipEout.

zargz
12th March 2005, 04:06 PM
Roger that! :robot

*been waiting for so long to tell you exactly those words Roger* ;)


Praeterea censeo autopilotum esse delendam

Dimension
16th March 2005, 02:09 AM
K so I notice that SE is an exception to this since you can potentially reach over 1000 (kpm?) at Gare D' Europa (in rapier i found that,) so yeah, maybe it was some kind of bug in W3O that stopped the speeds from reaching what they should have *shrugs*

Chill
16th March 2005, 03:15 AM
Well, Zone mode now exists, so the higher speeds wouldn't be much of a problem in the game, but in reality, it's a different story. You can't reach these speeds in reality (not that Wipeout won't become reality). So, the speeds would naturally go faster than reality offers. I thought of an idea of a Zone mode that puts you into a certain race class while online, so that you don't have a bunch of crappy players in your way, with all their craft's butts in your face. Anyway, on to the topic... :wink:

Mano
16th March 2005, 05:41 AM
Need to clarify something in the first post, on that video i am using brake tapping, altough you migh want to check the speedometer on 2097, it marks higher than XL -and the video is from XL not 2097 (dont know the speed proportion though) even if the actual speed is alike; theres also the ressetting issue, in 2097, according to Arnaud when you reach 495 or something around that, the speed resets
Im very busy but still need to make time to try max out the speed in XL with brake tapping and see if it resets too and at which speed.

JABBERJAW
16th March 2005, 02:08 PM
The speed is different for the wipeout 3 games. the american one goes to very low numbers, the pal wo3se goes very high(1000 maybe), not sure about regular 3. I think there was a bug in the speed counter actually for the american release. For xl the max speed is not 495, but around the mid 400's(on sagarmatha) and on 2097 it is 495, and your speed sometimes goes down off that last jump because you are going too fast(a bug).

mid
16th March 2005, 04:57 PM
K so I notice that SE is an exception to this since you can potentially reach over 1000 (kpm?) at Gare D' Europa (in rapier i found that,) so yeah, maybe it was some kind of bug in W3O that stopped the speeds from reaching what they should have *shrugs*

Alternatively, it reflects what we see in F1 now - as the cars get more and more powerful, course designs are changed to keep speeds closer to something approaching safe. Gare D' Europa wasn't designed with F7200 in mind, so the cars can get up to silly speeds.

Thruster2097
16th March 2005, 10:49 PM
yeah, but by then, bernie ecclestone's head (futurama reference) would have intervened and made them all use autopilot for the whole five laps.

Mano
21st March 2005, 04:03 AM
F5000 - AG Racing League


Technical test report AG-F5000-TF-569900

Team: N/A for this test, teams agreement file 0031
Pilot: Mano

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Arnaud and I had a talk about max speed quite a few weeks ago, when he told me about his video guide, the news werent in the forum yet.

Arnaud pointed out that the last section of Gare dŽEuropa - to be specific the big jump- is the best place to get top speed, so he told me about the speed reset thing on 2097, he also wanted to know if its on XL too, we talked about the speed counter working different on XL than 2097, but i think we all know true speed and possible times are similar on both, however, there are differences, and the more notorious are:

- Framerate
- 2097 speed counter *seems* to go higher than XL, to be more precise it goes higher quicker
- 2097 seems to retain speed easier
- 2097 is floatier, might be the or one of the reasons it retains the speed better
- XL is faster in first laps of any race (TT or SR), we have confirmed this many times on many tracks

I am a bit rusty since lately i dont play any video game often or as i usually did but after quite some time, i made time (god at last) to play and try top speed on Gare a few moments ago, and these results are very early to say the least, but they are in fact promising:

Gare Phantom:

Pirahna TT
top speed 450+

Auricom TT
*top speed 480+ (using the turbo boost), it held 470+ for about a second after landing, a few times.

So at least we know possible speeds are high, but cannot be retained easily, theoretically pirahna should be able to reach that speed and more, but the nature of the track holds it back just a little, however i need to master Gare first, but i think its possible to see higher speeds than 480+, and maybe, just maybe break the 500 barrier :D


End of report.

//.

Dimension
21st March 2005, 05:27 AM
Mano, the Qirex has a higher top end speed, by the time you get to the jump it should be at almost full speed, from there it should be able to outdo the Auricom's top speed with a boost I would think. I should really have a look and see about the PAL version just to see if what A says about the error in the US version is true, i'm sure the best top end speed would be possible from the jump at P-Mar. Hmm, I'll have a look at P-Mar with an Icaras on PAL and SE.

Also something of interest would be to look at the different class top speeds, they always seem similar though so probably not worth the effort. :(

*edit* Ok, so here's what I got... Remember that coming off the jump after trying these speeds I really didn't have anywhere to land to check what speed it maintained, but these speeds all dropped rapidly while in the air.

W3O SE, P-Mar Project, Phantom, Icaras

1: 1149 ?ph
2: 1129 ?ph
3: 1236 ?ph
4: 1206 ?ph
5: 1300 ?ph ish (All I saw were the first three digits it dropped so fast :|)

So I would say top speed you could possibly be looking at would be 1350, I was generally not in the posession of much shield energy by this point in the lap and I was pretty messy around the previous corner every time, the only two I hit the double speed pad on were the second and third :?

W3O PAL, P-Mar Project, Phantom, Icaras

1: 224 ?ph
2: 230 ?ph
3: 227 ?ph

I don't need to do any more tests because I can tell you now, there is something funky with this speedometer, it gets to about 230 and starts showing random figures, jumping below 100, into the 100s and then into the 200s, very peculiar indeed seeing as i never visually lost any speed :idea:

Guess that proves that the 200 ?ph limit speed thing is not limited to the US version :?

Mano
21st March 2005, 05:48 AM
Yeah tried all of the crafts, so far the easiest to keep top speed is the auricom, and the ag-sys, may be that the quirex is too heavy as in bottoms out too much too often, this might support my thoery that 2097 holds its speed more due to floatiness and maybe reaches high speeds quicker thanks to this too; t need to master Gare to counter the bottoming, so far all of the ships, even feisar reaches 480+, maybe over 485; need to do some more testing, that will have to wait till the next weekend maybe :(

Dimension
21st March 2005, 05:52 AM
I see, silly me :oops: Interesting findings to be found in the edited above post :)

Mano
21st March 2005, 04:47 PM
Btw i made some times in this test, in TT a lap record at Gare.. ;) maybe more to come in the weekend (not posting pirahna until i master the track)

Lance
21st March 2005, 05:51 PM
.
hm.... but isn't that part about WO2 instead of WO3? [we is in that there WO3 forum, rite now]

but even so. EEK! you beat one of my times. i really must start racing again. shem has also beaten a couple of them. i've been sitting on my posterior in front of the computer instead of in the racing cockpit. not that racing again is going to allow me to beat the hot pilots' times, but i should still try. it''ll be fun anyway

heh. the two top times in Phantom class being held by a Feisar and an Auricom. lol :D
.

Mano
22nd March 2005, 02:26 AM
Yeah, never for a second i thought it would slip the all seeing eye of Lance ;) , got carried away by the conversation i had with Arnaud, and things took a kinda natural flow, but im sorry to have gone parallel off topic, you know different games same issue, also Dimension took my video as example of almost no speed variation and i wanted to compare some things...yes yes i know even so im still at fault :roll: .. sorry.

Btw. now that you talk about the tables, will the future of the tables be at stake now that Pure is righteously taking the spotlight?... *shudders* better save money for a psp and Pure in a hopefully midterm future

Chill
22nd March 2005, 05:41 AM
I know we're back off topic, but to give a comment, I think we should just add in the Pure tables even though it'll have a sight and all, because this site is important not to just that game, but to the whole series (also including the series in the future), and I think this statement should be reputated, as a team. Just a thought. :wink: 8)

Mano
22nd March 2005, 07:12 AM
Chill: Even if Rob is willing to add them i think it is a good idea to wait a bit for the Pure tables so players can master the game and then compete, i also think that maybe there will be offical tables at the games official site, and the fact that if the tables were put up now we would really have a flood, in many aspects.

you know i think you got your nick the other way around, you shouldnt be "Chill" your should be called "Quick Wick" or something ;) (hey that would make a nice pilot name!)

(just kidding)

Chill
22nd March 2005, 04:18 PM
Yes, I know we should give everyone time, but I honestly thought we had some kind of name to live up to (and if it's too much work, no problem), I thought I'd just add my thoughts into the piggy bank. By the way, the official site table thing, I think I included that into the last post, if u noticed.

btw: Quick Wick??!!!!!! 8O Now I'm confused. :? Hey, I chill when I comment on things. I just chill and comment. :lol: Nothing you can see through the computer screen, but it's what's inside me that counts. I'm just laid back, and I love Wipeout at the same time. I feel like we're all chilln', not just me. Kinda why it's my name, to remind everyone that we're just chilln' about Wipeout, kinda cool if you think about it. 8)

Lance
22nd March 2005, 08:57 PM
.
he called you Quick Wick because you're very very excitable, and don't really chill when you post. :)

tables for Pure: it was Sony's position on Fusion that tables for that new game should only be on the official site. [and Fusion turned out not to have good record-keeping in the game, anyway.]. probably they will pursue the same policy with Pure, so i suspect that we will not see records for Pure on the WZ for a long time
.

infoxicated
22nd March 2005, 09:42 PM
I intend to do them - I don't quite know what the official site has in that regard, but I'll be putting Pure tables on here for definite. :)

Lance
22nd March 2005, 09:58 PM
.
YAAAAYY
they're bound to better than the official ones because they can be tailored to your and our wants
.

zargz
22nd March 2005, 10:29 PM
Great news! 8)
too bad I won't have a psp or pure for months to come :(


Praeterea censeo autopilotum esse delendam

Dimension
23rd March 2005, 10:56 AM
Cool, I was hoping we'd get the tables here :) Nice one foxxy

infoxicated
23rd March 2005, 11:07 AM
Great news! 8)
too bad I won't have a psp or pure for months to come :(
Same here - I have the game, well, an american disc, but I don't have a PSP to play it on and I cant justify importing one when I'm in the process of buying a house. :|

Ah well, at least I might have the tables ready for when the Euro version rolls around. ;)

Chill
23rd March 2005, 05:31 PM
Me too!!!!!!! :D Nice to see someone that may not pass me up!! :wink:

zargz
23rd March 2005, 10:38 PM
with some luck if i happen to be in thailand in a month or two I'll probly pick up a jap psp if they are cheaper than they'll be here in euroLand!


Praeterea censeo autopilotum esse delendam

TearsToShreds
18th July 2005, 06:30 PM
Here's my opinion as to why there are no speed changes... Because, basicly, if they would make WipEout even faster, it wouldn't attract any casual gamers, because they'll probably think its too hard. WipEout even faster? It would be cool, but very hard though.

flying_saucer
20th July 2005, 11:10 PM
uhum i got 273 at p-mar-project with the icaras craft (rapier).
i dont know if it was a bug :?
But it didnt showed random figures it just dropped off when i flew over (against) the wall. :P

its the PAL version i think (i left it in my caravan *damn*) :roll: