View Full Version : some questions for Zoolander and Asayyeah

16th March 2004, 11:26 AM
Hi, i was wondering which laps do you usually get your best laptimes in XL´s talons reach track?

i just dusted my negcon as im trying it again in an emu that supports it (even tho it has some problems with the music), i knew the NegCon was better than the other controllers, but i hadnt used it for hours like i did today for the first time... and it really makes a huge difference and makes the game A LOT more enjoyable, my times got better and i have just started with this nice controller!!

i already have posted my times in the xl emu times topic but here are they again

emu: PSXEVEN, petes D3D gpu plugin frame rate limit at 60 fps (same as a PSX on NTSC)

Talons Reach-Phantom


total race time = 1:28.3

I know for you guys this must be slow, but my times really improved with this and i think i can shave off a little more in the future, but i think in an optimal race i would get my best times on the 1st and 2nd lap as i dont overtake the late ships as much as on the last laps.

the 1st lap is easy as i overtake the whole opponent pack pretty early, and the 2nd one is almost opponent free but i start overtaking them again at the end of the lap, right before the pit lane, again this would be in optimal conditions as i didnt do this in the times i am showing you, this got the best race time because my times were more consistent, in another race i got a 16.1sec time but the on the other laps i did bad times.

Btw Al im using a NegCon configuration similar to what you use in WO3 (did a little search in the forum) and its really great cos you dont need to even move the index finger from the gas...EVER!! and that pretty much lets you use the controller a lot more comfortably. The controller tho very well designed and useful in this game, is not perfect; i dont experience the pain in the wrist many ppl talk about as i configure the twist in a very sensitive level (im using it on 11 right now), but i do feel the left half should be somehow bigger than the right one so i can get a better grip when im pitching the nose, i dunno if you guys feel it the same way. maybe its just that i feel more precision when i use just the tip of my thumb to control the nose pitch and that makes me place my left hand in a position that is a bit lower than the other hand, and feels like it could slip... maybe its a practice thing or i may need to spend more time with it.

I cant post my times on the tables as i dont have a psx anymore but like many have recommended me, i think im going to buy another one again... the negcon really is helping that decision.

16th March 2004, 02:49 PM
i think that the PSX runs no more than 30 fps in NTSC. you pretty much have to be on a console of the Dreamcast generation before you start seeing 60. all the old game reviews i read when i started playing videogames in year 2000 talked about how remarkable it was when a racing game could mostly sustain 30 fps with only the occasional frame rate drop

16th March 2004, 03:34 PM
In the emulator it runs at correct speed on 60 fps due to the fact that the tv refresh rate maximum on NTSC is 60hz and the frames have to be syncronized to that even if the game runs at 30 fps; any higher or lower it runs at a wrong speed. You probably are correct, the game may run at 30 fps in the console. However i think there are PSX games that run at 60 fps.. the ridge racer version in RR type 4 was advertised as being capable of it.

this got me curious.. does anyone knows at what framerate does wipeout xl run in a psx?, Nick may know this (tho i know the original wipeout runs at 30 fps)

16th March 2004, 04:54 PM
the more you race and become more consistent on any track, you realize that the computer ships are always in the same place if you race the same time from lap to lap. If you are going a little quicker you know that you will see that ship a little earlier on the track. This takes a while to figure out and you will need to play the track for almost an hour or so the first time you play the track to figure out where the ships are going to be. Once you figure this out it is much easier to dodge them(but still difficult). My best lap on talons would be lap 2. The rest of the laps can be fast or slow depending on where the ships are located(on a speed pad really slows you down if you cannot go over it). My suggestion is just to play the track over and over till you figure out where the ships will be.

16th March 2004, 05:44 PM
the 60 FPS demo included on the bonus disc that came with R4 was a reduced competitors version of the original Ridge Racer. that demo is the only PSX racing game i know of that ran at 60 FPS. it is radically smoother than the original game. i think that WO1,2,and 3 all run at 30 unless there are too many ships on screen at once to maintain that rate. on WO3 in TT mode, instead of taking advantage of only two ships on screen, yours and the ghost, to increase framerate to 60, it is run in higher resolution than SR mode

16th March 2004, 08:52 PM
Hi, i was wondering which laps do you usually get your best laptimes in XL´s talons reach track?

Since I only use the Qirex, I do my best times every alternating lap, starting with lap 2. That's simply because so I can use two turbos on every fast lap.


17th March 2004, 05:06 AM
Oh, and I did not pay enough attention to the topic line. Forgive me, please. :)

17th March 2004, 08:55 AM
G´kyl : No need to apologize man, your answer helps too, i just focused the question on Al and Asayyeah beacuse they are the ones that master the game more.

Al : thanks, indeed practice leads to perfection, i think lap 2 should be the fastest too, but who knows, maybe with something like Asayyeah´s technique we can gain incremental speed and that could make the later laps faster; but i would have to master other skills first, then we will see :)

20th March 2004, 09:45 PM
i just focused the question on Al and Asayyeah)
Sorry not to answer before...as you know i was on Scotland invited by Cool Lover & Stin, and have little time to manage writing or answering smthings....
I've worked 2 years in French Guyana, and ive met there a great peruvian girl who get married with a french mate. At this time they proposed to go with them visiting Peru, but unfortunately it wasn't possible. Maybe in the future ...crossing ocean to compete in Peru !! with the height , you ve got best condition to play or improve your reaction time ( ADD more O² in your lugs :o )
Seriously, except for talon's reach and Sagarmatha on 2097, lap 2 is my fastest lap in single race. The incremental speed as its own limit : for example on 2097 your speed can't cross 494 kph, after this theoritical line : your speed decrease to 394 kph!! It happends to me everytime on Sagarmatha with the jump ( just before it i am around 450 just before the 2 blue left pads after going over them i am close too 470kph) so with that speed if you bottom down during the jump you see your goes from 490 to 390 without hitting the ground!!) My hardest lap for me is lap 4 in Talon's reach when the first ships are overtaking the last slow ships and me i am between them ( the enter of talon's tunnel is extremely hard as inside of it)

Moreover what said Al is extremely important and true with the position of the ship, try to learn where they are, and when you know where; try to dodge them with the airbrakes ( only works very well with the pirahna) one right airbrake in twisting a little bit to avoid ship and quasi in the same moment tap your left airbrakes to return to your line up and oh surprised you don't waste time!!

Good luck Mano.

20th March 2004, 10:06 PM
thanks for the information Asayyeah, if your friends invite you to Peru again, you can kick my ass in wipeout anytime, i would be honored! :D

yeah, knowing were the ships are placed really helps improve race consistency, i just shaved more than 4 seconds of my talons time, now at 1:23.9, i have yet to break the 16.0 seconds barrier (my current best lap time on single race, not playing time trial yet).. still getting to know every curve ramp and bump on the track to do so (i should really do that on TT), as well as the nose pitch for each one which really helps to keep the inertial speed to build it up on every speed pad.

I knew that with incremental speed with your airbrake technique you could get a better time on the later laps.. at which lap on talons you get your top speed? and at which lap do you get your best lap time? your times amaze me man, and i havent been able to see your video yet :( , if anyone here can send it to me it would be great.

20th March 2004, 10:49 PM
:wink: under 16 good job dude. If i might give you an advice : run with your Ghost in Time Trial you will see where you can gain speed and also practising the ' tapping air brakes '. Under 1.20 could be reach by you in TT race.

At which lap you get your top speed?
At the end of the first lap i cross the line around 450 ( current best speed for ending lap1), At the beginning of lap 2 just after the right blue pad and the 2pads on left i am at top speed( 485). just after i decrease a bit due to the top of the hill when i up the nose to cross a little the end of left wall ( cutting a little bit the right curve) if i land properly ( without hitting ground) just on the 2blue pads my speed is around 450/460, after i up again a little to go straight the ' s ' curve before the ' C ' section, on the blue pads i am again at top speed ( 485/490).

at which lap do you get your best lap time?
Talon's reach ive made 14.7 on lap 2, lap 3 and lap 5, never in lap 4

For the video i hope you didn't have a firewall or Norton security ( if yes try to disemble it just to receive it ) i just made a test now the size is 3.12M it's an .exe file

20th March 2004, 10:54 PM
Nevermind that 16.0 secs sr talons reach lap time barrier... just did 15.9 secs.. lol just a 0.1 difference but i think i can do even better.
In the future if i can manage to execute your airbrake tapping technique i will improve my times a little bit more :)

20th March 2004, 11:11 PM
lol. nice quote removal, Mano. :D i was just about to remove it myself :)


21st March 2004, 12:02 AM
Lance : :( a new one addicted to Negcon :( and in few days you will see Stindah in action with this dawn good controller

Hey Al what will happend to our scores :o :o , we should explain to the others that Negcon is bad for brain and probably causes many damages on health... :D :D :D

28th March 2004, 03:52 AM
Lance: yeah, i wanted to edit my post but i clicked on quote by mistake and didnt notice it until i submited and read the post.. hehe as i was removing the quote i was just thinking about you seeing it LOL!, nice coincidence.


Improved my time on single race talons reach phantom!!:


Race time: 1:19.6 seconds

Like you said guys, enemies are very predictable, specially from 1st to 3rd lap.... 4th lap they are swarming essential flight lines that i use for speed pads, and i can find like 2 very close together with another one pretty close too a little bit before the S curve, 5th lap is very much like 4th, both are dificult. My best lap time right now is 15.6 secs (which i havent made on my best race time).

Asayyeah your airbrake tapping technique is great!!, but it seems to be a bit dampened on XL, i cant get over 400kmph. For example, if i am at 390 *before* a speed pad, when i pass over it it limits itself to 400 (or doesnt reach it, i havent completely confirmed this et as i dont want to distract too much away from the track) and goes down.. tho i get this speed before the first ramp up, and maybe the ramp is limiting the speed too much...

Al, you have both versions, does this difference exist between them or is it that i havent managed Asayyeah´s technique quite right ?, i can say it does work because i get a speed gain on speed pads that is higher than usual; but i only tap airbrake ONCE on each speed pad, what airbrake i use depends on what direction makes the best race line for me or if i have to go past another craft.

I cant use time trial on emu since the one i use doesnt work quite right on time trial mode, if i could i might spot where my airbrake tapping is going wrong.

Thanks again guys for the advice!!.

29th March 2004, 01:24 AM
There is a difference. Both games with increase the speed to 344 for the piranha on a flat with touching speed boost. for 2097 you can tap your brakes all the way up to 400, even not on blue pads. Then all you need to do is tap on the blue pads. for xl the speed will not increase with brake taps not on the pads after 344(sometimes a little), so you should only tap them on the pads and the speed only hits around 400 max, so you are doing it right. Which way do I like better(xl). Which way requires a little more skill(2097) which way is a litte more stupid and doesn't make any sense(2097)

29th March 2004, 02:36 AM
Thanks for the information Al, it all coincides with what i have experienced, now that i have confirmation on this i will stop concentrating on getting more speed on the airbrake tapping technique and focus on trying to master the track and finding all the right nose pitches on every part of it.

I have been searching for a cheap used playstation, i might be posting times in a near future :), tho i probably be posting only on XL and only on talons reach for the moment as i pretty much suck on the rest of the tracks :P hehe

29th March 2004, 12:47 PM
yes, 2nd hand psx shouldnt b too expensive now that psp and ps3 r on their way 8)

29th March 2004, 02:04 PM
In the emulator it runs at correct speed on 60 fps due to the fact that the tv refresh rate maximum on NTSC is 60hz.....

Just to add further explanation 60Hz refresh and 60 Frames per second are not the same thing. A TV draws its display in fields, that is, first it draws the even lines then it draws the odd lines (it may be the other way round but that's not important), normally the Playstation draws 2 fields per frame hence 30 Frames per second. This is because in most games the odd and even fields are identical, but, there is no reason why each field can't be different this is how you get 60 Frames per second, instead of the game updating once per frame it updates once per field with each field slightly different to the previous one.

Obviously this is going to mean twice as much work for the Graphics Processor so the scenes it is drawing must be simplified accordingly, this is why there are less opponents in the Ridge Racer demo and no opponents in Wip3out Time Trial or Gran Turismo 1&2 GT HiFi Mode. As you might have guessed by now the other advantage of drawing once per field is that the vertical resolution is doubled this is why the graphics look much cleaner, this is most noticeable playing Gran Turismo.

On top of that another trick is to use PAL60 mode which will speed the game up by 20% this is because PAL displays support a refresh rate of 60Hz (OK, some old TV's can't) as well as their normal 50Hz rate.This may sound unfair to NTSC users but really it isn't, this just brings PAL displays up to the speed Americans and Japanese always have.

29th March 2004, 11:13 PM
Welcome to the forums OddbOd :

Fields.. yeah now i remember that, thats why ppl say any console on a NTSC or PAL60 is not even running at 60 frames per second but at 60 fields per second

Thanks for adding this information, very interesting, and explains why images are very blurry on tv, even at the same resolution a pc monitor has a clearer, crisper image, the dots on a pc monitor are smaller, and the images display methods are diferent.

30th March 2004, 03:18 AM
the ntsc games are not 20% faster though because of the programming. Anyways, the speed of the time counter speeds up 20% as well just making your reflexes have to be 20% faster.

2nd April 2004, 04:28 AM
I was sketching a piranha craft between my classes, after that i get home and find some red bull that was brought home during grocery shopping beacuse they were giving free samples; too many signs of lack of wipeout so i decided to sharpen skills while i wait for information on the cheap playstation i have been looking for around :D.

So I got the red bull out of the fridge (btw, i dont think it makes any difference on people´s skills, like some might say :P) and made some races on talons reach, phantom, single race, and improved my time a little bit more:


total race time = 1:19.1

After making some 15.5 laps (in other races, and very very few of them) i think its very probable to make a sub 1:18.0 time on Talons Reach SR, tho with my current skill level it would be VERY hard and demand a lot of time and concentration.. i havent managed to get a 1st lap time lower than 15.8 yet

I realized how foolish i may have sounded when i said lap 1 could be one of the fastest ones, as it seems its the slowest one (unless some other new technique is discovered).

Al, Asayyeah says that shortcutting a little bit of the first corner flying over it shaves a bit of time, maybe that would be the case of 2097 only due to the added speed... as far as i can tell i slow down to the point its counterproductive in order to shortcut, do you take this shortcut in XL?

2nd April 2004, 12:21 PM
Not if I'm using the braking technique, I follow the course on xl. for 2097 maybe a slight cutoff.