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r3d1y7
7th March 2004, 02:09 PM
Probably already been said somewhere, but considering the fact that both wipeout XL and 2097 are not being sold on the PC any longer, and psygnosis have no intentions of updating the few, but annoying issues the engine has, would it be unreasonable to ask them to release the source code into public domain, so that the Community can fix such problems and maybe even add new features (multiplayer)??

Tell me what you think?

Lance
7th March 2004, 04:35 PM
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i think Sony won't do it. three reasons, major corporations jealously guard all copyrighted material to prevent its possible use for profit by others or also what they would consider to be degradation by others. second, they may wish to base future releases on the old games even if it's just an element or two and therefore must maintain copyright for their own use. third, it's work and money spent to publish something which doesn't bring them any benefit.

2097/XL was in fact published fairly recently for the Mac, so it is certainly not regarded as old stuff that won't be used. you mentioned Psygnosis; they don't exist anymore. Sony bought them in 1993 and eventually eliminated the Psygnosis company identity. one of the old studios was closed, while another carries on as Sony's Liverpool studio, which was the designer/developer of Wipeout Fusion.

btw, hi :)
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Mano
7th March 2004, 10:07 PM
Welcome to the forums r3d1y7 :) .....

Actually, releasing the source code doesnt give away any copyrighted material on the wipeout series (except for the game engine) and even so the copyrights to the source code remains in whoever possesion it is now.

it would be usable for everyone else; its not uncommon to see companies release its source code once the software becomes old, and in this case it can be seen as a way to make profit as more people will be able to play the game and recognize the series, as that software is almost totally unusable by today pcs, becuase of framerate problems, and controller issues (no directinput really cripples the game in this sense); all those things can get fixed for free by the community and revive the series (for the people outside the community, as it is more than alive in us). This also could pave the way for another sequel, etc.

One thing: if anyone at Sony is reading this, DONT SIT ON THE franchise, series, source code, and all those things you have there, at the very least make a profit out of it for gods sake; and dont tell me that actual studies show that it would make little or no profit to make a game like Wipeout now, that is the lamest excuse big companies use to take the lazy, greedy way, and release fps after fps after fps (even tho some of the are good most of the are very low quality), or movie licensed games (which 90% SUCK), what is the most usual thing that happens when this route is taken?: it returns no profit or you are in front of a major loss.

If you make a good game, it gathers audience and consumers everywhere, even the ones that thought they werent interested into something like it. And in this case you already have a tried and proved formula that is already famous!!!!.

Basically what im saying is do something good with that old source code or let other people do that for you for free (!!, free advertising using old software!! dont be shortsighted!! ), or better yet forget that and assemble a good team and make a GREAT sequel that at the very least is a worthy sucesor, even if you have a new team, hire or if not possible ask the old teams for advice, consider that when you make a sequel it would be a good idea to consult the author, the man (or men) that had the original idea in the first place and please by all that is holy: hire the designers republic!!

.....did i went off-topic here? at which moment this became a rant??!! LOL

G'Kyl
8th March 2004, 12:01 AM
Welcome to the forums r3d1y7 :) .....
at the very least make a profit out of it for gods sake; and dont tell me that actual studies show that it would make little or no profit to make a game like Wipeout now, that is the lamest excuse big companies use to take the lazy, greedy way, and release fps after fps after fps (even tho some of the are good most of the are very low quality), or movie licensed games (which 90% SUCK), what is the most usual thing that happens when this route is taken?: it returns no profit or you are in front of a major loss.


I`d be careful here. FPS indeed seem to sell best these days (and most of them ARE good, I dare say). And don't you think that if any type of game would be as promsiing as yet another fps, they would produce such games?




If you make a good game, it gathers audience and consumers everywhere, even the ones that thought they werent interested into something like it.


Actually, it's fa from being as easy as that. Bestselling genres (fps or, up until some two years ago, rts) can be sold almost effortless. Publishers who release anything that's not among those almost generally struggle real hard to make reasonable profit - so of course they tend to stick to the usual.


Ben

Mano
8th March 2004, 01:11 AM
Welcome to the forums r3d1y7 :) .....
at the very least make a profit out of it for gods sake; and dont tell me that actual studies show that it would make little or no profit to make a game like Wipeout now, that is the lamest excuse big companies use to take the lazy, greedy way, and release fps after fps after fps (even tho some of the are good most of the are very low quality), or movie licensed games (which 90% SUCK), what is the most usual thing that happens when this route is taken?: it returns no profit or you are in front of a major loss.


I`d be careful here. FPS indeed seem to sell best these days (and most of them ARE good, I dare say). And don't you think that if any type of game would be as promsiing as yet another fps, they would produce such games?


Thats what im saying, if everyone thinks like this, creativity is only going to be boxed into the fps genre, and theres not going to be much innovation outside that; and i think we should be more careful with that.

I have played a lot of FPSs and most of them are below par, but i think that appreciation is subjective, and FPS is one of the genres i like (mostly the team based multiplayer ones), also its not a matter of they being sold a lot because they are good its because ppl have gotten used to the fps genre. but what happens when companies decide to take another road?: SIMS?, Metal Gear Solid?, GTA3? knights of the old republic?.....WIPEOUT!? just a very few examples, i think all of them have been best sellers.




If you make a good game, it gathers audience and consumers everywhere, even the ones that thought they werent interested into something like it.


Actually, it's fa from being as easy as that. Bestselling genres (fps or, up until some two years ago, rts) can be sold almost effortless. Publishers who release anything that's not among those almost generally struggle real hard to make reasonable profit - so of course they tend to stick to the usual.


Ben

Keywords EFFORTLESS and USUAL, thats what i meant when i said "the lazy, greedy way" consumers at least a very high volume of them are just looking for the next big fps but when they get too many crappy games, its going to backfire, they will come looking for something different and companies will not have much to respond with (i hope it doesnt come down to a modern version of the atari ending era, but maybe that is needed).

No one said making a good game is easy, being a creative new one or a great old franchise new fps (half-life2*doom3 best examples). Isnt that the way its supposed to be? great games always come from hard work, maybe one person had the bright idea in a second from divine inspiration, but the execution always require hardwork from everyone involved; two other things: innovative ideas are very often from a very simple origin and dont have direct competitors (since they are new) but when there are a million fps out there you have to make a lot of thigs to make yours stand out, and perhaps that makes them invest a lot more money than they intended too.

Lance
8th March 2004, 01:43 AM
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[moderator feels compelled, fearful, but compelled, to step into the swirling storm of quotes and to request that the quoting be replaced by more selective and creative ways to refer to previous posts. moderator is worried that the next stage will be poster 2 quoting poster 1 quoting poster 2 quoting poster 1 in a post which will contain all previous data from the entire topic, some of it at fourth repetition. pleeeese help me out here, i beg of you. [drops to floor and grovels pleadingly] :)
i can't read any more words, please don't make meeeee... pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaassssssseeeeee....
[snickers at own self-silliness]
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Mano
8th March 2004, 01:54 AM
lol but Lance i thought you loved words!...hmmm maybe not so much if you read the same thing over and over hehe.

No problem, your point is well taken

Lance
8th March 2004, 03:47 AM
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oh, i dO love words. 'serendipity' is a great word; i love that one.

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and thanks
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r3d1y7
8th March 2004, 04:38 AM
Hi everyone btw =)

I was just saying because I’ve seen it happen elsewhere, and I’ve seen some amazing things that people do with game engines. I just thought to myself that it isn’t overly difficult to code a frame limiter, and I would hate to see wipeout 2097/XL die because it has issues with recent hardware =(

I'm not overly sure that the code could be used to make a profit, usually when you download game source code there are a bunch of terms and conditions discouraging resale. If it were released, I’m sure there would be a lot of stuff that could be done, including mods etc....

I dunno lol

G'Kyl
8th March 2004, 07:17 AM
No one said making a good game is easy, being a creative new one or a great old franchise new fps (half-life2*doom3 best examples). Isnt that the way its supposed to be?


That's my point: On an idealistic level you are absolutely right. But publishers have to be realistic, and so game designers have to be. There's two or three really big companies out there that could, theoretically, afford to produce pieces of art which are not meant to actually make money. Everyone else cannot take such risks. And it's true: Greatness comes from where you see it. Yet it rarely sells. And that's what keeps the industry alive, after all. Unfortuanately.

Ben

P.S.: And Lance, be alright - I never quote more than I need to connect the dots. :)

Asche XL
9th March 2004, 01:45 AM
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2097/XL was in fact published fairly recently for the Mac
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Really? I just bought a G5 where can I get that?

Wiseman
9th March 2004, 07:47 AM
You can order it directly from Freeverse's (US publisher) website here:

http://www.freeverse.com/


Or you can get it from Virtual Programming LTD (Europe publisher) here:

http://www.vpltd.com/


Don't forget to download the patch after you get it.

JABBERJAW
9th March 2004, 11:22 PM
What is the patch for, or what does it do?