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TYSON
10th November 2003, 06:51 AM
Hi Everyone,
Just wanted to know what people believe to be the best strategy for Wipeout 3 & SE? Do you go into the pits every lap? every second lap? etc.

Do you deliberately rail slide (touch the wall)? etc.

I really have no idea at the moment, I'm used to 2097 & havn't got the hang of the whole shield/turbo concept, can i please get some help from experts?

Cheers

Tyson
8)

tyltyI
10th November 2003, 08:27 AM
Hi Everyone,
Just wanted to know what people believe to be the best strategy for Wipeout 3 & SE? Do you go into the pits every lap? every second lap? etc.

Do you deliberately rail slide (touch the wall)? etc.

I really have no idea at the moment, I'm used to 2097 & havn't got the hang of the whole shield/turbo concept, can i please get some help from experts?

Cheers

Tyson
8)

I go into the pits everytime I need to. If I'm low on energy and I know that I won't be alive for another lap then I go. If not I just pass along.
I do a rail slide only to save me from a wall crash :lol:

Shem
10th November 2003, 08:55 AM
Yeah, rail slides - it helps but it's exteamly difficult to be done properly. It's a thin line between smashing against the wall, and gettin' faster thanx to the rail slide. Personaly - it helped me houndreds of times at Porto Kora - mainly at this zig-zag turn just after the start. Come to think of it - i did'n even had to turn in any way - nose up, little jugglin' with air breaks and u go thorugh these turns like through butter.And one more thing - it's way more easy to perform a slide piloting a very fast ship - like Icaras, Asseqai, Qirex. I guess Qirex would be the perfect tool for training slides since it's like a flying brick.

Shem
10th November 2003, 08:59 AM
P.S.
Pit stop is good for championship, single race, or link battle, but even there - it's not so usefull at all. Not to metion Time Trial. I think that pit stop i W"O 3 is the weakest point of the game.

lunar
10th November 2003, 12:32 PM
I`m talking about getting fast race times here, not playing the actual game against CPU opponents.

pit strategy depends entirely on the track and class. You`re more likely to want to pit on vector and venom for the extra hyperthrust, but the time lost pitting in fast classes is seldom won back by the extra juice gained. The main exception is on some shortcutty tracks where having extra boost may enable you to use aerial routes you could not use without getting a shield top up.

Also if the pit lane is a pretty easy one like on Altima you will probably pit more often. Its all very very strategic, and unless you`re a perfect pilot your ideal plan must change as the race unfolds.

As far as turbo scraping is concerned, I think the general consensus is that its a good idea on Vec and Ven if you can do it, but probably too dangerous on rapier and phantom. On the fast class it causes more grief than anything, particularly on narrow sections of track. I never do it deliberately as it seems a bit artificial, but fairplay to those who do, after all I`m not shy about taking shortcuts.

:P :D

TYSON
11th November 2003, 01:07 AM
Hi everone,
Yeah they sound like good ideas, I'm figuring that Single Race strats should be waaaay different.

I've found that in Time trial you get a better overall time by avoiding the pits, but they are sooo tempting for that extra boost.

jmoid
15th November 2003, 12:51 PM
Boost can make a lot of difference. Tap it as you go over speed pads and you'll get a more sustained burst. If you've got an auto-pilot, boost yourself into a difficult part of the track, then ue the auto-pilot (for instance this works really well on the 90 degree turns at Manor Top).

TYSON
16th November 2003, 01:12 AM
jmoid wrote:


Boost can make a lot of difference. Tap it as you go over speed pads and you'll get a more sustained burst.

but wouldn't it be better to use our hyperthrust when not on the speed pads? that way you'd make up some speed instead of slowing down again. I guess most hyperthrust gets used for big jumps anyway, that's what i've been trying to do.


If you've got an auto-pilot, boost yourself into a difficult part of the track, then ue the auto-pilot (for instance this works really well on the 90 degree turns at Manor Top).

yeah i love doing that, going flat out straight for a wall then turning on auto pilot, i find it pretty funny the places the ship ends up... yet it seems to never get hurt.. lol.

Would expert pilots agree when i say pits should be used in Time trial in Vector & Venom but NOT Rapier & Phantom? And for race it would be for all classes i think, with all those weapons flying around?

Thanks for the advice guys.

:wink:

lunar
16th November 2003, 03:05 PM
IMO there`s not a lot of difference between TT and race, really, except that on lap 1 in race you`re looking for defensive weapons so you don`t get shot, and after that you`re in the lead and looking for autopilots. If you get shot early in a race you`re not going to get a good time anyway and might as well restart, so the offensive weapons on AI ships won`t affect your pit strategy on a good run. On rapier and phantom classes my pit strategy between race and TT would only differ where use of autopilot would affect what decisions I make.

Shem
16th November 2003, 07:22 PM
First of all - a good pilot never uses an autopilot :D
Well there are some exceptions on this one. Eg. - when u're about to hit the wall, there's this wierd situation - u engage an autopilot and fly trough the wall unharmed. Also the Manortop 90 dgree turns are well handled by autopilot, but there's nothing like cutting, these with Aggeqai! And here's my point - why use these devices? If u're good enough, there'll be no need to!

The best strategy is to know the track as good as the back of your hand, and the rest is just the consequence. U don't have to worry about opponents 'couse they'll be way behind, no worry about shield 'couse u don't hit any walls, not to worry about speed 'couse u pilot Icaras :D
The only problem are mines - u never know where they are.

lunar
16th November 2003, 07:34 PM
First of all - a good pilot never uses an autopilot :D .

:D I don`t care about being "good" in your purist terms, Shem, I want to be fast. If that requires autopilot...... :D


why use these devices? .

because its sometimes faster, and the object of the exercise when competing on the tables is to get the fastest time you can within the Wipeoutzone rules.


The only problem are mines - u never know where they are.

A good pilot`s reactions are of course so fast that mines present no problem to him. :wink:

TYSON
16th November 2003, 10:31 PM
hmm....
And so more excellent advice continues, it's nice to see that people have slightly varied opinions on what they believe to be the best strategy. This is perhaps Wipeout 3 & SE's strongest calling card: it's flexibility for different pilots. Wipeout 2 was far more linear, basically from A to B, it was raw skill with the obvious objective of "Dont hit that wall!" now in the 3rd generation we have to deal with the whole tech issues of rail sliding and hyperthrusting. At first i thought this was silly but i'm starting to appreciate the challenge.

If anyone else has advice or would like to share what helps you through the laps, give it a quick write up, i think everyone will find it interesting.

:lol:

Lance
16th November 2003, 10:42 PM
.
presumably some of our members are already working on articles for the piloting guide that is to be eventually included in the new version of the wipeoutzone. for those who've not followed that story, the new wz layout is pretty much complete except for problems relating to the code for the times tables. once these are resolved, the new wz will go online and we can pay attention to new features. such as the piloting guide.
i hope you article authors are working assiduously on those advice sections!
.

TYSON
16th November 2003, 10:49 PM
Lance wrote:

presumably some of our members are already working on articles for the piloting guide that is to be eventually included in the new version of the wipeoutzone. for those who've not followed that story, the new wz layout is pretty much complete except for problems relating to the code for the times tables

Sounds good, this will be a big help for beginners and experts alike i suspect as there are many technicalities to deal with.

:wink:

Shem
17th November 2003, 10:55 AM
Lunar said
I don`t care about being "good" in your purist terms, Shem, I want to be fast. If that requires autopilot......

We're from different schools Lunar, my piloting skills have roots in the first W'O so that's why I'm so puristic (as You called it). And one more thing - good piloting=fast piloting.
That's all I have to say.

P.S. - if u like autopilot so much, try to avoid mines while using it :wink:

lunar
17th November 2003, 01:45 PM
You seem to suggest that someone who uses autopilot doesn`t actually have to fly the ship himself and doesn`t need skill - which is nonsense if I may say so. In a 4 lap race on rapier you would expect to get maybe two autopilots - and maybe they`ll do 2-4% of the race for you, something like that anyway. You have to decide where is the best place to deploy them, and work out a place to safely disengage, in order to gain the maximum advantage from them, which is the idea of competition.

If YOU can do the tunnel section on Altima (SE) and the Hexagonal tunnels on LS103 faster without autopilot than with it - I congratulate you. You yourself half-admitted the manortop turns were faster with autopilot......maybe not so much fun, or as satisfying to veterans of the game - but faster. And of course even an autopilot user is going to have to fly these turns on the laps when he doesn`t have the autopilot. If he can`t fly them his final time will suck.

"Good piloting = fast piloting....." is too obvious. Of course in the 97% of the race where you don`t have an autopilot you still have to actually fly it - but its about competing within the rules and putting up the best times you are able to, not claiming moral victories because you never use autopilot.

Finally, if you`re hitting mines with autopilot, then you`re not in the lead. They shouldn`t be a problem. :wink: There is a risk of it on lap 1, or at the end when you`re lapping, but that`s a small percentage risk which I accept.

Lance
17th November 2003, 02:51 PM
.
i'm with lunar on this one. if pure racing is what is required, then WipEout is the wrong series for anything but time trials. other races involve weapons, one of the main characteristics that separated WipEout from earlier racing games. one works within the basic parameters and physics of the game structure and computer engine; so i don't consider the use of any of the elements of those to be impure. it is more complex and dangerous to use auto-pilot than it is to avoid it. it is an extra opportunity for skill. and you need to develop the judgement and timing of where and exaCTly when to use it. most of the time it will bite you, and even in the minority of cases where it can help you, it must be used perfectly or it will harm you instead. i have nothing against pure racing and one of my absolute favourite games is one of the purest of the pure, but the WipEout series just isn't that type of game
.

Shem
17th November 2003, 02:56 PM
I harldy ever use autopilot - that's true. I don't suggest that someone who uses autopilot is lame or so...AS I SAID - i use autpilot in such cases whrn i'm just about to hit the wall (after that i disengage it), and that's it.
I'm more into flying all by myself 'cause it helps to work out an individual technique for every track. Do you suggest that W'O developers made some turns so difficult that U must use autopilot?

Let's say i have nothing against autopilot, but only when it saves my arse from smashing it into wall. I'm not gonna repeat myself at this point.
I can surely say that every turn in W'O is possible to fly-trough faster than with autopilot. U just have to master these, whether it's the tunnel section on Altima or the Hexagonal tunnels on LS103. I'm also sure about the fact, that there is an individual method to fly through these difficult sections of tracks.
Remeber that autopilot pilots tha craft in most optimal way there is. Your ship flies by wire. I'm trying to more flexible, trying to find another way to fly trough. And in most cases - it works.

P.S. You can hit the mines being behind someone(when you're not in the first place) as well you can hit the mines wich were left by someone in the last place (when you're fast enough to takeover the last opponents). :wink:

lunar
17th November 2003, 05:11 PM
I agree with you about practice and not relying on autopilot, firstly you won`t always have it so you must practice without it, and secondly, as you say, your skill will increase and you will stop using it in some sections because its slower for you. At first I used it at the end of Porto Kora, but its obviously slower and now I just drive manually and keep an AP in reserve incase I screw up the jump. To a certain extent the skill of the driver is very much a deciding factor in this, and I know there are plenty of better pilots than me.

But until I see the evidence with my own eyes (a video of the sections in question) I will still believe there are some sections where cunning and accurate use of autopilot cannot be beaten. In some cases the handling of the Icaras ship just will not allow it, no matter what you do. Of course you might beat autopilot/Icaras with Assegai in some cases, but then you`d suffer on the rest of the track and still end up using Icaras. I could be wrong of course - it has happened before. :wink:

So yes I think the programmers did put in sections where autopilot is the fastest way - whether they did this on purpose I don`t know, and doubt if they really thought about it as deeply as we do. :wink:

Guess we`ll have to agree to disagree, Shem. :D

Shem
17th November 2003, 08:48 PM
Then I guess that concludes our topic Lunar :)

P.S. I'd love to show you my flying technique at Porto Kora (Icaras), but first I'd have to confront my TT lap times on this with the best lap times that were posted in the Records section. (that's becouse the fastest lap times are wierd, I see something like 9:59:00 - what's this? I hope that the rebuilt of this site will affect these)
In case i'd make a complete idiot out of myself of course :)

zargz
17th November 2003, 09:51 PM
yes the tables r f%kt up right now but u'll notice when the site looks differrent
THEN the tables'll b ok as well .. (^_^)
b4 New Year? ('_'?)
may b 8)

Task
17th November 2003, 11:44 PM
Wow, this is awesome.
Did you guys read the Fusion site? The little snippets of information they put in there? There was one part where it was mentioned that most pilots agreed that Autopilot was not for "real" pilots, but of course they all had a different idea of what a "real" pilot was, because they all thought that different uses of Autopilot were "okay", and yet even though there were those who swore that Autopilot was only a rookie tool and that they were just "so much better than that" and that they'd rather Autopilots were banned... Computer logs of the races showed that _every_single_pilot_ used Autopilot at one time or another during races.

So here we are, a collection of fans of a racing game, acting exactly like the game designers figured that actual pilots in the game would act.

We rock.

Lance
18th November 2003, 12:23 AM
.
either
A: those guys were geniuses
or
B: we are waay too predictable
or
C: they balanced the game elements on the edge of advantage/disadvantage which therefore required the greatest balance of piloting skill and judgement to be at the top. in other words, those guys were geniuses
.

Shem
18th November 2003, 02:48 PM
I say, theres nothing to predict really.
Put yourself in a developers position -
You create a game (whatever it would be), u put some things into the game wich accutally helps you play it.
As a developer u would easily assume that there will be a group of geeks (that's us! :D )
who will be puristic about this game ("using in game "helpers" is lame man!" :D ).
It's quite obvious to me.

science
18th November 2003, 04:09 PM
Do keep in mind that we were watched from afar for quite some time during the development of Fusion...;)

On the topic of autopilot-
Autopilot is usually used as an aid for rookies, as it is in many comparable games, but not exclusively.
A perfect example can be found in the ntsc records, single race: manor top: phantom class. note the the ship that Al used. He set that record during our little battle for 1st on that track a year or two back. We went back and forth setting new records almost daily with Assegai for a few weeks, and when I set a record that he couldnt beat with Assegai for a few days (or didnt have the patience to) he gave Icarus a try. It is literally impossible to achieve that record with Icarus without autopilots, and I'm not jumping to conclusions here. He told me that he used an autopilot each time through the series of 90degree turns after the first big jump. Icarus simply does not maintain the speed it needs around sharp turns with manual control, but with autopilot you actually get through that part of the track significantly faster. So, in some cases autopilot can make a perfect race, well, better than perfect!

Shem
18th November 2003, 06:04 PM
In theory i should be done with this autopilot issue, but...
I still use Asseqai at Manortop. Yes, It's slower than Icaras, but that's the reason I hit the hyperthrust every time I'm on to the last straight on this track. Apart that, this track is seen to be ideal for Asseqai - the turns are perfect for this ship (u don't have the manuverebility problem as if u were flying Icaras), U enter most curves, and glide through them perfectly, so U don't even have to hit the airbrakes. I just love to fly Asseqai at Manortop, it's a perfect match.
As for the 90deg. turns at this track - if it makes U happy to fly them with autopilot, and what's moreover - u get better times using autopilot - good for you man!

P.S. - Well, I hope that someone from the developing team for the new Wipeout is watching us :)

science
18th November 2003, 11:52 PM
Shem, I agree with you completely. I tried Al's trick with Icarus and autopilots on manortop, but it didnt feel right, and it just wasnt much fun. Assegai is hands down the best craft for the track at phantom speeds.

Lance
19th November 2003, 06:58 AM
.
Joel, have you ever used Pirhana in phantom class at Manor Top, and if so, how does it compare to Assegai?
.

science
19th November 2003, 08:19 AM
yeah, but its been so long that i cant remember. i havent had a chance to play in months! I used to use AG-Systems whenevr i was just racing for fun, but it's not really suited for record setting, nor are any of the other crafts except icarus and assegai. unfortunately youve got to go with max speed or max handling with nothing in between.

If i had to guess, i would say that you could set better times with AG-S than with pirhana on manortop at phantom...

Task
19th November 2003, 02:09 PM
Yeah, the AG Sys is actually fairly similar to the Icaras and Assegai, it's kind of the compromise between the two. It doesn't have max speed, but it's faster than Assegai. It doesn't have max handling, but it's better than Icaras. I plan on finding the right track and class to prove that on the right class and track, AG Sys is the best craft.

Pirhana, Auricom, Goteki, FEISAR, they just don't have what it takes to be a "track beating" craft: Devotion. Icaras is devoted to speed. Pure speed, and nothing but. And that'll own most races. Except for the ones with high speeds and a lot of turning. And there's the Assegai, devoted to slick-as-oil handling.

If there was a track where hyperthrust was key, then perhaps Qirex could have a track, but I find that highly unlikely. Qirex is likely to remain "the craft for eliminator" and stay that way.
Somewhere is a track and class combination that the AG Sys is perfect for.
Dunno if I'll ever find such a beast, but I'm keeping my eyes open.

zargz
19th November 2003, 02:14 PM
Wow, this is awesome.
Did you guys read the Fusion site?
hmm .. surprises me that place is still goin .. ('_')
after what happened with the wo3 page ..

Shem
19th November 2003, 05:10 PM
To answer Tasks question about Quirex.
I don't know why, but a perfect track for Quirex to me is Hi-Fumi. Really I can't tell you why, maybe becouse it's an industrial track, and this team comes from Russia, which reminds me of Korodera (W'O - i hope i didn't make a mistke spelling this one).
I think it all comes to similaties.
I like to fly AG sys. at P-Mar Project, and Pirahna at Stanza Inter. There's somethin' about it but i don't know what it is.

science
19th November 2003, 07:28 PM
I'm afriad that AG-S just doesn't have much of a place in record-breaking. Believe me, I've tried. I thought maybe I could beat the times of Stanza Inter using AG-Systems, as it seemed like it had a good combination of turns and straights, but I didnt come anywhere close to even my own times with Icarus...
The only tracks i could be wrong about are the prototypes (which i really dont play as much as I should) or the extra tracks that were added to SE (which i will never get to play!). The main tracks, unfortunately, are out of the question.

lunar
19th November 2003, 08:56 PM
AGS at Phantom class is a beautiful ship, and I love it for fun flights and refresher-courses, but I think its only about as quick as a rapier class Icaras, sadly.

I think the only track where it might just possibly win out is Arridos/Phantom, as Icaras is a real beast on that track at Phantom, and Assegai, though faster on the bends, might not have the the power to eat up the straights well enough.

I once held Phentia Park/Phantom with AGS, until Vasudeva, and then Al, noticed and took their Icari (?) to it..... the rest was carnage. :cry:

Shem
19th November 2003, 09:41 PM
I WANT MY AG-SYS BACK!!!!!!! :cry:
( :) )

JABBERJAW
25th November 2003, 11:19 PM
I can say for a fact that autopilot is faster in certain circumstances than actually piloting some turns(mega mall) using the assegai. It is true that piloting icarus on manortop sucks, and using assegai without autopilots is faster than using them with assegai, but not by much. If you use to much airbrake it is slower.

Shem
26th November 2003, 11:39 AM
Zoolander wrote :

If you use to much airbrake it is slower.

And that's where you use tricks like rail slide.
Heh, do you remember what happened in XL when you flew into one of the cameras at the final jump at Gare D' Europa? U could see the whole last straight from aerial view.
Ahhhh, remember the good times........ :wink:

science
26th November 2003, 03:34 PM
If you're using railslides to improve your race, I can all but guarantee you that you are slowing yourself down. First, railsliding is far too unpredictable to be worthwhile. Second, Its not helping your time by more than a few hundredths of a second if you pull it off successfully. Third, even if you are pulling it off successfully time after time, you are most likely pulling yourself off of the ideal racing line to do it, so in the end it's more harmful than good.

Shem
27th November 2003, 12:28 PM
If you're on a straight, there's no need to perform a rail slide, guess that's what you're trying to insinuate science. Slides are helpfull with curves, other ocassions, but for God's sake - not flying a straight line!
In that case your ship will slow down, and nobody needs this.
Yes, slides are pretty unpredictible, but still predictible enough to use them, If they weren't, there wouldn't be any use of them at all.
It's your choice wether u want to use them or not. I don't force u to. :wink:

infoxicated
27th November 2003, 02:35 PM
It's your choice wether u want to use them or not. I don't force u to. :wink:Obviously - I think the debate is only whether it's really beneficial. I've never actively tried to rail slide / turbo-scrape (as it has been called in the past), but then I don't try to cut corners or take advantage of other quirks of the game just to boost my times.

I think the reason folk like Manortop so much is that it's a very honest track in that regard - there isn't really anywhere on it where cutting corners or turbo-scraping is beneficial.

science
28th November 2003, 04:32 AM
meow.

Shem
28th November 2003, 05:02 PM
Fair enough.

zargz
28th November 2003, 05:53 PM
[quote=Shem]I think the reason folk like Manortop so much is that it's a very honest track in that regard - there isn't really anywhere on it where cutting corners or turbo-scraping is beneficial.
how about that big jump? boost of it at 45 rigtht and u can land just infront of the 90 turns and thus skip all the straight ('_'?)

infoxicated
29th November 2003, 01:55 PM
But there you're trying to cheat, Zargz - it's harldy part of the stick-to-tracks ethos, is it.

If you achieve a good time by taking a shortcut, what value does it have?

Maybe it's just me - I'd rather set a good time within the parameters of the track than be a gutless cheating lamer. :roll:

zargz
29th November 2003, 08:10 PM
that's right! that's y I dont post times for that particular track :o .. :wink:

science
30th November 2003, 01:09 AM
such harsh words...

FoxZero
30th November 2003, 01:14 AM
on manor top i like to scrape the rail next to the cat on the right side of the track because it puts me in a good position for the 90 degree turns and sometimes second scrapes on the left side of the track. does this make me dishonest :O

science
30th November 2003, 01:19 AM
as long as you dont find a shortcut that takes you from the start to the finishline, you are probably alright.

jmoid
30th November 2003, 01:35 PM
in some cases autopilot can make a perfect race, well, better than perfect!

Thanks Joel, that's exactly what I meant when I first mentioned autopilot. It's not possible to fly the ship the way the autopilot does, so it can give you times that you couldn't match without it. Whether you think you should use it or not is, as we can see from the debate in this thread, something else.

infoxicated
30th November 2003, 01:43 PM
I'll second that - an autopilot on the first lap at MT is the key to a good time - it means you'll leave the drones behind by the time you're at the jump.

On other tracks I find it more of an insurance policy than anything else - like at Stanza Inter, for example, it helps you through the twisty bits without the breath holding! :D

Lance
30th November 2003, 03:01 PM
.
i hate that damned little s-bend tunnel on SI, the last tunnel before the finish
.

TYSON
30th November 2003, 10:57 PM
Zarg Wrote:


how about that big jump? boost of it at 45 rigtht and u can land just infront of the 90 turns and thus skip all the straight ('_'?)

Jeez i didn't know that much could be cut! is that on the Japanese WO3 & WO3 SE? I guess that's a no brainer.

In such a case as that one where so much track is cut i think Infox has a definete argument against it's credibility. Although i use as many shortcuts as I can, & to a certain extent i really like them, where is the line drawn between cutting out a part of track vs. sticking to it? I mean, if your cutting half the track what's the point in that cut section being there in the first place?

I would like to know what ppl think about this?!!

:lol:

lunar
30th November 2003, 11:40 PM
its an olde debate this one:

http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=871

my position is basically the same as Rejj`s last post in there, and he described my position better than I did. :oops:

Anyway here`s to the next WO having no autopilots or shortcuts, and all contests being settled on the racetrack. I think 3SE is a really strong game in that despite it receiving so much attention from so many obsessed gamers no-one has managed to find a game-killing glitch in it, or a no-skill cheat that makes the whole contest meaningless, like the Fusion respawns. :D

Shem
1st December 2003, 12:50 PM
I agree with you Lunar - racing on a race track, not on some sand or gravel is completly in W'O style. Heh, those AG machines were built to race on a specific surface (above it), and I'm getting carried away, again.... :wink:

science
1st December 2003, 07:10 PM
Yeah, rejj and lunar nailed it in that thread. There just aren't that many "bugs" that can be taken advantage of.
Turboscraping, feature or flaw, is definitely not worth your time at higher speeds. If you're racing phantom and you're bothering with turboscraping instead of sticking to a tight racing line, I guarantee you that you will never unseat the top contenders in the times tables. If you are playing at a class where turboscrapes are beneficial to your times, then you are playing below your own skill level. Move up.
Shortcuts, intended or not, are there... and they aren't mariokart type shortcuts where you jump a wall and you're at the finish line. They are moderate shortcuts that most of us discovered through many, many hours of play, and we should be free to use them if we want to. If you DO try to take too big of a shortcut, the wuss-wagon will be after you in no time. It has been taken into consideration in the making of the game. (If the manortop shortcut is a design flub, why is there no railing along the path where you land?)
Fortunately, with the old WO series (especially xl and 3 to my knowledge) we are dealing with extremely well made games. There aren't any bugs (if they are indeed bugs) that are big enough where they can be considered cheating IMO. Anything that wasn't intended has been an enhancement of gameplay, not a cheap trick to cut your times.
In short, if you're able to do it, then you should be allowed to do it...
...and that should stick until the day someone finds that path through a mountainside where the omnipresent wuss-wagon wasn't watching. :D

Shem
2nd December 2003, 04:46 PM
After what you've written Science, there's no alternative for me but to pray for a perfect flight engine, perfect track designs, and absolutly NO BUGS in the newly pronouced Wipeout. This would solve all the problems that we encounter during this disscusion.
Hopefully, it takes time to develop a game like that, and remember that nobody, hence nothing is perfect.

JABBERJAW
3rd December 2003, 02:13 AM
There is a mountainside you can go through on one of the classic tracks, but it is no faster than the real route and far more dangerous. Science did you see my comment on the japanese version of wipeout 3(the one about the clip you saw being one of the two extra proto tracks added instead of hi fumii. The J-version gives you less oportunities for ridiculous air than even the american one(except for those two tracks, which you can use a prototype ship that looks a little like icarus, but with a speed of 10!!

science
3rd December 2003, 08:09 PM
aah, that would explain it. I remember you knew what it was way back when I first found it, but I forgot the deal with it. Hey, do you have the japanese version of 3? If so, can you do the old switcheroo trick to make it work on an american machine?

JABBERJAW
4th December 2003, 03:55 AM
you mean to put the american one in, and then switch over to the japanese version? I don't think that works, but I will triy it. I tried a bunch of stuff like that once, and all I got was being able to play wipeout xl vs wipeout 2097 in link mode(which is kinda cool). It works on a modded system though just fine. I actually feel the japanese version plays the best.

Shem
4th December 2003, 11:38 AM
do you know where i can find some info on this jap. version of W'O3?
I really didn't know about those 2 extra protos included in this version as well as 'the mystery craft' (the one which looks like Icaras). :o

JABBERJAW
9th December 2003, 11:56 PM
What would you like to know about it?

Shem
12th December 2003, 12:17 AM
Everything! :o

Lance
12th December 2003, 08:59 AM
.
it would help if you could ask specific questions. we can't really expect Al to spend his time giving a complete description of the game. my suggestions for some are;
does it have the same teams?
what are the differences in the ships performance compared to the north american and pal versions?
are the individual tracks exactly like those of the other versions?
what are the extra tracks like?
are the controls any looser or tighter than the other versions?
do the ships float at the same height as in other versions?
are shortcuts more or less common on the japanese version?

the answers to many of these are probably scattered in various already existing threads. however, it might be useful to have all the answers gathered in one place
.

Shem
12th December 2003, 11:41 AM
I'm only interested in info about this "mistery ship" - what is it, the performance of it, some links to pages with screenshots of it. Also I would like to know something about these 2 new extra prototype tracks included in jap. ver. of W3O SE. I don't expect from you to tell me everything, 'cause it would take your time, links to pages would be a better solution i think.

yuusen
8th February 2004, 01:35 PM

well for me the ships fall into two categories : strong shields and weak shields.

the strong shielded ships include : qirex, feisar, goteki 45 and auricom (kinda).
the weaker shields belong to : icaras, assegai, ag-systems and pirhana.

why am i mentioning this? because the size of the shield dictates a lot of my flying strategy. if the ship has a lot of shield to spare then i tend to use the hyperthrust on the straights. feisar and goteki require this to be done as they lack top speed. qirex and auricom (to an extent - y'know, its hard to be sure where to place my opinion about auricom, their stats are very spread out, in fact when i first saw the name in 2097 i thought it said avricom, in reference to their averaged stats) need to cut corners in order to maintain a smooth racing line and compensate for their poor turning circle. the hyperthrust comes in handy when accelerating out of corners that require the ship to come to a reverse standstill.

the weaker shielded ships prevent me from using the hyperthrust in singelrace mode as weapons tend to play a major part in my demise if the shields are wasted in this way. however, i do like to hit the hyperthrust just after leaving the peak of a jump (not a sharp brow but an actual jump, built with the intention of jumping from) in order to scream through the air and leave the other ships (or times) way behind. i prefer not to use this technique with the heavier (wider turn circle) ships as it usually reults in me losing control at this point in my development.

cornering in general i find to be a mixed bag of wide airbrake slides and ever increasingly perfect brakeless turns when the right line is chosen.

i still find it hard not to basketball off the ground after some jumps but reckon that a deftly placed tap of both airbrakes along with a raised nose will help in that area (the airbrakes being tapped when the ship is at the correct point to slow the decent yet not high enough to make the ship fall back to earth, if you see what i mean).

turbo scraping is random at this point in time, but i find that nudging up to the edge of the track with the airbrakes can pull one off spontaniously.

my neGcon is in the mail so i shall add my updated techique to this post when it arrives.


JABBERJAW
8th February 2004, 04:00 PM
Mystery ship speed 10, everything else 3. It is very uncontrollable at top speed(so far) and can only be used on the two extra oval tracks(one short and one long). Vector speed is like phantom speed with this ship.

Shem
8th February 2004, 04:29 PM
:o
(gotta have it..)

stin
8th February 2004, 06:55 PM
Mystery ship speed 10, everything else 3. It is very uncontrollable at top speed(so far) and can only be used on the two extra oval tracks(one short and one long). Vector speed is like phantom speed with this ship.

Is there a mystery ship in SE?!

I`ve thought it was 2097 but it`s not!

stin :o